As the title says...

My friend and I are actively thinking / researching the car as they are inexpensive, fast, and reasonably maintenance free... While loud, muffler systems do exist to bring them under 100dB.

We have a list of the pros and cons that we made up, but I'd like to see what some other people think of them.

As an aside, my SM 1993 Civic Coupe DX is for sale. Details will follow,

 

I hate the sound of them, but I am also considering getting into them. I'd be interested to see your pro/con list that you've made up.

 

IM Sent

 

They are cheap to run. They have what "rubber doughnut" suspension. Seems like hating the sound of those cars is something quite a few people agree on. I hate it when those things take to the course especially in a club race. They don't change gears damn it. LOL.

Barry H.

 

The other thing besides the price/performance ratio of the F440/F500 that is appealing to us is that go karts of ANY type are NOT allowed in an autocross grid in the great state of NJ (State Police regulations).

If they were, at least 12 people I race with off the top of my head would have Renspeed Hondas or Tonykarts (sp?), myself included!

 

Are you sure that F440/500s are considered "karts"?
I know [in NJ] had Formula Vees show up, but come to think of it... yeah I've never seen an F440/F500.

 

F500s are typically not considered to be karts.

And I don't know about maintenance free. Everyone I know that has one works on it ALOT. They are simple, but not maintenance free.
And if you have a bumpy local surface, they get torn up alot.

That said, Renee drove Clint McMahans F500 for a couple of years including a trip to Topeka and she really liked it. Super fast and twitchy and the cent. drive means you have to keep your foot in the gas to go fast.
We have a picture somewhere of her completely airborn at Topeka. She admits that it scared the **** out of her.

 

I'd buy one if participation numbers were higher, so I'm considering a FV isntead (FV, not Solo Vee).

 

Honestly, I never understood the appeal of these for autox use. Sure, they do it ok, but they are much more at home on a roadcourse rather than a parking lot with slow corners.

My same feeling goes for F125 carts, CM, BM and AM cars. A Formula Ford on an autox course? They don't do anything well in such an environment, even though they do it fast. Know what I mean?

Moral: I like such vehicles, but not for autox.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by emwavey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you sure that F440/500s are considered "karts"?
I know [in NJ] had Formula Vees show up, but come to think of it... yeah I've never seen an F440/F500.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, no, you misunderstood me. GO-Karts (aren't allowed. The F440 / F500 are considered motor vehicles.

 

There is one guy who uses an F500 locally. He is usually a contendor for FTD, depending on the course setup and grip of course I think the reason they don't shift is because of a CVT system

 

How big are you folks that fit in these things? I tried hopping into an F500 a few years ago and got stuck trying to wedge my shoulders in. I was only 5'8 165ish at that point, the driver of the car was apparently 5'10 130ish ie toothpick.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WRXRacer111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How big are you folks that fit in these things? I tried hopping into an F500 a few years ago and got stuck trying to wedge my shoulders in. I was only 5'8 165ish at that point, the driver of the car was apparently 5'10 130ish ie toothpick. </TD></TR></TABLE>

From the research I've done there are different cars that can fit different size drivers. I've seen some advertised for 6'4" 240 lb drivers and some that say won't fit any larger than 5'10". I'm at 6' and around 180 lb so I think I've got a good shot at finding something I can fit into.

I'm with crack monkey though. I'm trying to decide if FV or F500 is the way to go for me.

 

Buy a CM or BM Ford instead. It's a real car with a real motor as opposed to a go-cart with a snowmobile engine. The car won't sound like a leaf blower on steroids. I don't know anyone who is not driving a F440/F500 who can stand being around them.

Plus, and I say this as nicely as I can, Tony, you are not a little slender guy. The FM cars don't have much power and rely on their lightweight for speed to a larger extent than bigger cars like the FF. You will be at a serious disadvantage because the car and driver weight will be higher than most of your competitors.

Also the FM cars are a pain in the neck (literally) when it comes to bumps. They have rubber donuts for suspensions which puts them just one step above a cart for bumpy. Since the E-Town lot is not getting any smoother, you want a car that can handle bumps reasonably.

regards,
alan

 

i haven't driven a F440/F500, but i have driven a CM car. todd's comments that they don't do anything well in an autox environment is off base IMO. setup properly (the one i've driven was the one daddio won in) a formula ford is more fun then any car with only 100 some odd horespower should be allowed to be. even after a crappy run with a spin and a half dozen cones you can't slap the smile off my face.

the F500's around here all come across as derelict POS. they're in good shape. breaking belts, blowing sound, and beating up the drivers over the bumps are pretty much the norm. the formula ford guys don't seem to be having nearly the same problems.

i've driven a Solo Vee before as well. the one John MacDonald has run at nats and trophied with the last couple of times. while better then the snowmobile powered cars, that air cooled v-dub motor is a bit finicky. that's not the big drawback though. the big drawback is the crappy swing axle rear suspension and torsion beam front suspension. carrol smith had some good comments on just how bad this suspension type is. it's a bitch to tune, it doesn't work very good once you start hitting some serious bumps, the steering geometry is all wacked... i don't like them, period.

my nickle on the subject.

nate

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Buy a CM or BM Ford instead. It's a real car with a real motor as opposed to a go-cart with a snowmobile engine. The car won't sound like a leaf blower on steroids. I don't know anyone who is not driving a F440/F500 who can stand being around them.

Plus, and I say this as nicely as I can, Tony, you are not a little slender guy. The FM cars don't have much power and rely on their lightweight for speed to a larger extent than bigger cars like the FF. You will be at a serious disadvantage because the car and driver weight will be higher than most of your competitors.

Also the FM cars are a pain in the neck (literally) when it comes to bumps. They have rubber donuts for suspensions which puts them just one step above a cart for bumpy. Since the E-Town lot is not getting any smoother, you want a car that can handle bumps reasonably.

regards,
alan</TD></TR></TABLE>

Alan,

I appreciate your advice. I must say though... Think of Art Trier and Clair Smith. Both were bigger guys and they fit fine. I must also admit that I didn't think there were many "go-fast" components for these things (specifically motors), but apparently they are a big deal well into the "Snow Belt" with hot cams, cranks, intakes, etc.

I'm sure we'll eventually have a monster, Jeff excels in that category!

As for noise, I already made it clear to Jeff that I'd rather sacrifice 5-7hp with regards to putting a real muffler system on it in order to keep people from hating us!

 

I never said they didn't work...I just said that they didn't do anything well in regards to what an autox car should be like. They are prone to understeering one corner, then at the next they will oversteer . You can correct for this, but FF's were not designed as autox cars. On a roadcourse they'd be a ball, however.

I think the popularity comes from a stable rulebase for the last 20 years and the fact that you can pick them up decently cheap. And go grab FTD at your local region unless you have a good F125 cart there.

 

These cars seem robust though, Jeff sent me a picture last night and it was clear that this thing was designed to survive bumps considering they don't really dispatch them too well.

We have to host an event this weekend at Raceway Park. I'm going to try and get someone with one to come down so we can test it...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by honda93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I must say though... Think of Art Trier and Clair Smith. Both were bigger guys and they fit fine...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I did not say or mean to imply that you would not fit, only that heavier drivers are a a distinct disadvantage in a very lightweight car like the F500. This is not to say that you can't have fun but that if you want to be competitive at a national level you start with a pretty big handicap. That handicap is not as significant in a bigger car like CM or BM.

regards,
alan

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by honda93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I must also admit that I didn't think there were many "go-fast" components for these things (specifically motors), but apparently they are a big deal well into the "Snow Belt" with hot cams, cranks, intakes, etc.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

They don't HAVE cams y0! Two-stroke!

I'm not sure exactly what the 500 motor is used out of, but I believe the 440 is basically the same as that used in the Kawasaki JS440 standup jetski eons ago. There are still tons of carb/intake setups and probably a few mechanical fuel injection systems still available. Not sure what your rules allow, but on race gas I've seen 440 motors rip with aftermarket heads up around 235psi cranking. Interchangable head domes for changing compression are pretty cool, though at anything about 200psi you're going to want straight race gas, and 175psi+ you'll want to be mixing it to keep the motor from blowing itself apart. Not really sure what the rules are regarding F440/500 etc.