I'm currently considering offering a rubber-alternative bushing option for our LCA's, specifically polyurethane vs. spherical bearings. Since neither seem very well suited for the daily driver, I think this sort of thing would only garner interest with those who track their cars frequently, or have a dedicated track car, and I'm concerned that non-rubber bushings may be a mod that affects what class you race in according to whatever club rules you abide by? I'm not familiar with the SCCA or NASA rules or anything, I was wondering if any of you had any input.
Also, IS there any need/interest in these sorts of things, or is hard rubber just fine? Are spherical bearings too high-maintenance to be worth it? It would increase the price of the LCA's substantially, as would polyurethane to a lesser degree. I know the benefits are there, and this would definitely be a niche product.

 

There are already a few companies doing the spherical bearings for the LCA. Depends what car you are talking about though. I know I would like to switch to them, but cost is a big determining factor for me. That is why I have not done it yet. To many other things need to be done first!

 

Yeah I understand cost is a big factor for most people. But assuming the cost is not unreasonable, some quality spherical bearings are preferred over normal hard rubber for track duties, right? I mean it seems obvious, but I've heard the rumors about longevity and maintenance issues with the spherical bearings, and haven't had time to fully look into the matter. I'm not even sure what grade of bearings is necessary.

 

It varies greatly depending on class and sanctioning body, but many of the more accessible SCCA classes prohibit spherical bearings in place of bushings. For example, the rules in STS specify that the replacement bushings may be of any material except metal, they may not contain substantially more metal than the stock bushings, and they may not contain internal moving parts (e.g., spherical bearings). I don't know for certain, but I'm pretty sure that the IT rules are similar.

 

Ah very good, very good. It sounds like polyurethane is a less prohibitive option? I would like to make both options available, but it would be too $$$.

 

I wouldnt use Poly.... the LCA does not move on a single axis. Take the shocks out and then move the suspension through its range of motion.

 

I see what you are saying, I should've known that. Looks like poly is out... spherical bearings might be more trouble than its worth to most users, and to us as well. Fack.

 

m00gen is nice too

I have mostly spherical bits in my track car.

 

Why do I remember reading that Mugen's bushings are like stock replacements, in that they are not much stiffer than stock?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Noob4life &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why do I remember reading that Mugen's bushings are like stock replacements, in that they are not much stiffer than stock?</TD></TR></TABLE>

someone said it in an article on rear trailing arm bushings.

 

Ah maybe that was it..

 

If you were going to look at sphericals, it would be great if you designed things with dust boots for longevity, and replacable bearings.
Finally, make sure the parts don't go to pieces like some other Taiwanese parts have been doing.

 

Yes some sort of covering to prevent debris from entering would definitely be included. Not entirely sure how the bearings will be fitted into the lca yet, since its still just a rough idea at this point.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Noob4life &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why do I remember reading that Mugen's bushings are like stock replacements, in that they are not much stiffer than stock?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The Mugen replacements are harder than stock but they look like the stock parts. Mugen uses a harder rubber.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Noob4life &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm currently considering offering a rubber-alternative bushing option for our LCA's, specifically polyurethane vs. spherical bearings. Since neither seem very well suited for the daily driver, I think this sort of thing would only garner interest with those who track their cars frequently, or have a dedicated track car, and I'm concerned that non-rubber bushings may be a mod that affects what class you race in according to whatever club rules you abide by? I'm not familiar with the SCCA or NASA rules or anything, I was wondering if any of you had any input.
Also, IS there any need/interest in these sorts of things, or is hard rubber just fine? Are spherical bearings too high-maintenance to be worth it? It would increase the price of the LCA's substantially, as would polyurethane to a lesser degree. I know the benefits are there, and this would definitely be a niche product.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You could make both spherical and hard rubber models. Steer the street guys toward the hard rubber due and the racers toward the sphericals. I use mostly spherical replacements on my CRX racecar and have some hard rubber parts as well. For a racecar, sphericals everywhere would be ideal but the cost would be astronomical.

 

Yes I think the majority of our lca's will still use the hard rubber bushings. The spherical bearings we have been using are very nice pieces (from Aurora Bearings), and definitely not cheap, and we've only been ordering one type; the cost of ordering all the different types and sizes needed to switch an entire car to spherical bearings would be astronomical, way beyond our scope.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Noob4life &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes I think the majority of our lca's will still use the hard rubber bushings. The spherical bearings we have been using are very nice pieces (from Aurora Bearings), and definitely not cheap, and we've only been ordering one type; the cost of ordering all the different types and sizes needed to switch an entire car to spherical bearings would be astronomical, way beyond our scope. </TD></TR></TABLE>

When I performed fatigue tests on helicopter parts, we used NHBB teflon lined rod ends for all of our test machines. I would have to replace the rod ends after 25 million cycles or so for a 3/8" dia. X 3/8" shank with approx. 1500 lbs max of oscillating load. These bearings, which were not FAA approved, cost about $65 dollars each.

 

What do you guys think of this Hard Race bushing kit - http://www.hardrace.com/acura/...e.php

I'm looking at the Stage 1 (street racing! ) since I still daily drive my car... they use hardened rubbing and looks like they have pretty good build quality. Anyone have first hand experience with any of their products?

 

I have their spherical setup for the front UCA and everything spherical in the Rear suspension - good product, and great customer service. The shipping from Taiwan was a bit expensive, but well worth it.

 

how are their prices?

 

email them for price lists, I'm not a distributor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wouldnt use Poly.... the LCA does not move on a single axis. Take the shocks out and then move the suspension through its range of motion.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Excuse me? I thought it was the Trailing arm that doesn't move on a single axis, not the LCA. For the Rear LCA to not move in a single axix, it also moves forward and backwards, or twists clockwise/counter clockwise? As for the front, it can do nothing but move in a single plane, up and down, as its limited by the rear bushings. I am speaking about 92-95 Civics, as that is what I own.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChassisInnovations &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What do you guys think of this Hard Race bushing kit - http://www.hardrace.com/acura/...e.php

I'm looking at the Stage 1 (street racing! ) since I still daily drive my car... they use hardened rubbing and looks like they have pretty good build quality. Anyone have first hand experience with any of their products?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmm, if .RJ is right, and you don't want poly in the LCAs, then how is hard rubber any better?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DavidR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Excuse me? I thought it was the Trailing arm that doesn't move on a single axis, not the LCA. For the Rear LCA to not move in a single axix, it also moves forward and backwards, or twists clockwise/counter clockwise? As for the front, it can do nothing but move in a single plane, up and down, as its limited by the rear bushings. I am speaking about 92-95 Civics, as that is what I own.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, since thats what you own put the car on jackstands and take the shocks and springs out. Jack up the hub and watch the range of motion of each of the arms. They will deflect slightly front to rear as well as moving up and down. The front LCA has a 'compliance' bushing on the rear.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DavidR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Hmm, if .RJ is right, and you don't want poly in the LCAs, then how is hard rubber any better? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Rubber has 'memory' - it will retain its shape. Poly doesnt, and when it deflects front to rear, it retains that shape and wears out faster.