ok so i had my first event. i drive a 95 integra gsr, it's all stock besides skunk2 coilovers and kyb agx shocks. it has buddy club p1s, yokohama avs es100 195-50-15's.

i had my suspension set on 3 up front and 2 in back. (OUT OF 4)

i had some understeer, what would you guys suggest.?

Thanks in advance

 

well from the shock dyno's i have seen 1 and 2 make some real adjustments, so id so go wth 1 up front, and 4 in the back. It will probably feel the same as 2 though.

 

softening the front and stiffening the rear valviing will get the car to rotate better. Sometimes underteering just means you are entering to hot and need practoce practice practice.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> had some understeer, what would you guys suggest.?
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Full stiff in the rear, full soft in the front, more rear tire pressure and go slower in the slow parts....

 

ok thanks for the advice i need practice for sure, im used to racing shifter karts that i can throw anywhere i want, a ff is alot different.

so going down in the fron and up in the back. makes sense.

also, should i get any type of bars/braces/etc. if so what would be recommended

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MarkZeroNine &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had some understeer, what would you guys suggest.?
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Dont change the car. Fix the driver...... more seat time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dont change the car. Fix the driver...... more seat time.</TD></TR></TABLE>

right, however i know what my car is doing. it is understeering. i am asking for help on what to do to help my car stop understeering. it's my first autocross, not my first time racing/driving my car.

not to sound like a dick

 

I had a cart driver as a student at a driver's school last year and found he had some basic bad habits as far as driving a front drive car on pavement versus a rear drive cart on dirt. The main one was getting on the power as he turned in, which puts the front drive car into terminal understeer. In the cart, I think it would unload the inside tire and allow it to rotate. Any chance that is what you were doing?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mohudsolo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had a cart driver as a student at a driver's school last year and found he had some basic bad habits as far as driving a front drive car on pavement versus a rear drive cart on dirt. The main one was getting on the power as he turned in, which puts the front drive car into terminal understeer. In the cart, I think it would unload the inside tire and allow it to rotate. Any chance that is what you were doing?</TD></TR></TABLE>

well their is a big difference in dirt karts than what i raced, which is asphault shifterkarts. however i do know what you're talking about. when racing karts i do have the habit of being able to jam the steering wheel wherever i want to go and the kart to just follow(even though that's not the fastest way, im used to being able to have that ability if i need it) i understand a ff car is not the same by any means, i took it relativly slow out there not wanting to kill any cones. nevertheless my car is still understeering and i was looking for advise.

im new to this section of ht and i have no problem admitting im wrong, i'm just looking for advice

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MarkZeroNine &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

right, however i know what my car is doing. it is understeering. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Its a hevay FWD car. Its going to do that.

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Well, you need more experience. Any fwd car is going to underseer, rather resolutely, on street tires and soft suspension. You're going to need to learn how to drive around it - dont change the car, work on the driver.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its a hevay FWD car. Its going to do that.

Well, you need more experience. Any fwd car is going to underseer, rather resolutely, on street tires and soft suspension. You're going to need to learn how to drive around it - dont change the car, work on the driver.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Point taken

 

Those skills you build while trying to drive the car as is will help you out greatly later.... smoothness, looking ahead, slow in/fast out, etc. Build them while you dont have much experience and you will carry it with you. Get experienced drivers to ride with you, and drive your car with you in the pass seat during fun runs also.

 

Brake in a straight line. Be smooth, not jerky with the wheel. Slow in, fast out but be gentle on the throttle to avoid wheelspin. Look ahead, the car will go where you are looking, so look where you want to go. Once you have mastered all that, get a big fat Comptech rear sway bar and dial some negative camber into the front.

Enjoy

 

What tire pressures are you running? When I was using ES100's, I was running 48F and 42R. I found 48 front to be enouigh to keep the sidewalls from rolling except under the most extreme turning when it would roll anyway.

Before getting new suspension components I'd consider getting new tires. ES100's are great for the street, but if you can get away with it, get something better with stiffer sidewalls.

And seat time. I wouldn't go making drastic adjustments after just one event. If you can, attend an autocross school where you can get a lot of practice and more importantly a lot of runs so you can tune the car and immediately see how it reacts. Just a few runs at an actual event doesn't really provide enough time to really dial in the car in my opinion.

Smoothness with the wheel is a definite must as well. If you yank the wheel, it's going to immediately start understeering and you'll have to unwind or let off the gas. I find that I only really need to use +/-135 degrees of steering wheel input from center to get around most turns.

 

Ideally, I'd say leave the car stock and run of street tires. You learn faster that way because you don't have R-compiund tires and a nice suspension to hide your mistakes. But gone are the days that anyone under the age of 22 has a "stock" car anymore. So, I now have to say don't do a damn thing to the car. You have no idea how much time is left in YOU.

Matt says:
-If you hear the tires squeeling, you are going too fast. Slow down more there next time.
-If there are 2 ways you can take a section (such as enter a slolam on either side) pick the way that allows you to turn the steering wheel less/fewer times.
-If there is someone kickin your *** in a bone stock anything, ask to ride with them. Better yet, offer to let them drive your car while you ride.

 

Probably the best advice you can get is this. I went to an autocross school run by Brian Garfield and he was able to best my time by .8 seconds on a 30 second course the first time he ever drove my stock LS. You can really learn alot about taking the correct line, when to be on the throttle and brake, and most importantly what your car is capable of as is, so you don't go spending money on upgrades (if that's the path you choose to take) without maxing out the car in its current configuration.

 

MarkZeroNine, since you race shifter karts, you should already be proficient at left foot braking. There is a lot of time to be found by applying this technique correctly in a front drive autocross car. It keeps the chassis well balenced which reduces the tendancy to understeer, but only if you do it correctly. Too much brake or throttle will have you pushing like crazy.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Type_RS_59 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">MarkZeroNine, since you race shifter karts, you should already be proficient at left foot braking. There is a lot of time to be found by applying this technique correctly in a front drive autocross car. It keeps the chassis well balenced which reduces the tendancy to understeer, but only if you do it correctly. Too much brake or throttle will have you pushing like crazy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

interesting, im imagining it in my head right now, it seems so bizzare to do in a car but i cant wait to try it out

 

since it's your first autocross, the best advice is "improve the driver"

if you really want to "improve the car" though, then get a set of falken azenis. 205/50/15. of all the mods i have done on my STS integra, a set of azenis by far made the biggest difference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MarkZeroNine &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">interesting, im imagining it in my head right now, it seems so bizzare to do in a car but i cant wait to try it out </TD></TR></TABLE>
If you have an auto trans car you can borrow from somebody, that's a good way to practice left foot braking on the street without getting into too much trouble.

edit: clarified


Modified by Agent Smith at 4:47 PM 8/16/2005

 

How can you get in to trouble LFBing? once you shift in to second just leave it there adn dont touch it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mattamotor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How can you get in to trouble LFBing? once you shift in to second just leave it there adn dont touch it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Added clarification

 

Now it makes sense. LFB on the street could get most people in to trouble.

 

I could not get a feel for LFB on the street. I spent a day at the Team O'Neal Rally School in New Hampshire (just for fun) and they had me left footin' all day long. I went to my next Auto-X, used it and won my class by three tenths. I still think it's probably dangerous on the street, but maybe not in an empty parking lot.

 

One of the hardest parts about learning LFB for me was developing the proper sensitivity, so you brake smoothly with the left foot. That is the part that you can most definitely practice safely on the street in an automatic (you may want to do the first couple stops in a parking lot/deserted street). The worst thing that can happen is that you jam on the brakes harder than intended. At this point, I LFB exclusively when driving an auto (One foot on the brake and one on the gas, yeah!).

Practicing LFB in a manual during normal street driving, on the other hand, is dangerous and irresponsible. Getting the brake and the clutch mixed up at the wrong time could easily cause an accident. Don't do it.