hey just wondering if anyone has a lower rear TIE BAR on their accord and if they noticed any handling improvement or is it very minimal?

Thank you.

 

there more for show...sway bars and front upper strut bars make a difference though.

 

I'm probably going to get a massive responce from manufacturer's reps, but Tie Bars (either front or rear) are almost entirely cosmetic in traverse engine mounted chassis.
They were initially developed in the early 80's along with motor plates with the advent of motorheads shoehorning Big Blocks into unibody Camaros', Firebirds, Mustangs etc.
Moroso was probably the first I was aware of offering these things. And their intent was to control chassis twist caused by the longitudenally mounted engines' torque, thus controlling wheel lift during launch
Traverse mounted powertrains do not have a chassis twist problem because the engine's twisting moments orient front to rear, not side to side.
Most all Tie bars offered would be ineffective due to the arc most exibit. Because of the arc, the bar acts like a bow; acting like a spring whenever under tension or compression. The only effective design would be a straight bar between two machined mounts.

P

Save your money (unless you like how they look)

 

Not to steal the thead...but would u just suggest getting the upper front strut ONLY? Or what else?

 

Upper strut, rear sway, front sway if you really want.

I got a cheap ebay front strut, and then did the Acura TL-S sway for my 2000 Accord

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aleks77 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey just wondering if anyone has a lower rear TIE BAR on their accord and if they noticed any handling improvement or is it very minimal?

Thank you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

won't make a difference, especially in a 4th gen accord (from previous threads, i think that's the car you have).

 

yes it is, 90 accord, below is a link to an ebay tie bar, it is straight, and i am all about performance rather then look, cant really see it under the car anyways? especially if its lowered

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

 

Tie rod bars are mainly for show...granted they do stiffen the chassis but not much considering of where the 2 connecting points are and also when compared to other chassis stiffening bars/adjustments that are possible.

I would say to acheive a good handling FWD car I would do the following:

Springs
adjustable shocks
Upgrade Rear sway
Get oem bushing for the front
Rear strut tower brace
Trunk hard brace
Front strut brace
c-pillar brace

Basically the front will push in turns and IMO you wouldn't want that very stiff since it will push even more, so you stiffen the rear and the front barely giving you errrr me a good handling car. Its all about personal preference though NTM your driving/handling preference.

 

What is a Trunk hard brace and a c-pillar brace? Thanks .ken

 

Chassis stiffness has always been a snakeoil and mirrors game; what with the furvent desire for the stiffest, straightest chassis out there.
But really, you've got to ask yourself; "just how flexible are these cars, anyway?"
The answer?, pretty darn stiff.

Just ponder this;
When was the last time that you've heard (or even witnessed) either a windshield or a back glass popping out of their frames? They should, if the chassis flexes (because they're no more than glued in) but don't.
And when was the last time you witnessed the hood changing alignment as the chassis twisted, but the hood didn't.

Go install a set of upgraded Anti-sway bars and go have fun.

P

 

there is some amount of twist that is going to happen in any chassis...sure, we haven't seen glass popping out or hoods missaligned, but tell me one person who hasn't gotten good results from a rear sway bar upgrade, or even a name brand front strut tower bar...chassis stiffening will always yield a handling enhancement, especially if you are stiffening around the strut towers...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nick H &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there is some amount of twist that is going to happen in any chassis...sure, we haven't seen glass popping out or hoods missaligned, but tell me one person who hasn't gotten good results from a rear sway bar upgrade, or even a name brand front strut tower bar...chassis stiffening will always yield a handling enhancement, especially if you are stiffening around the strut towers...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly.

P_adams: I agree with what you're saying but when you stiffen the chassis slightly you will notice a difference. Fact is the chassis was put together in a somewhat cost effective way that still retained safety. If you go as far as spot welding the chassis the chassis will be hand over foot in terms of stiffness but again, its not cost effective for a car manufacture to do so. The next best thing and cost effective as a tuner would be to stiffen the chassis by strengthening the weakest point within the chassis and that would be (from a basic point of view) would be near the struts and the a/b/c pillars.



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aleks77 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is a Trunk hard brace and a c-pillar brace? Thanks .ken</TD></TR></TABLE>

Trunk hard brace is a bar that connects near the rear of the trunk and connects both the rear bumper braces, I just installed mine on my civic and I already noticed a decent difference in how solid the car feels. The c-pillar brace is the 3rd pillar in your car, from your front windshield that is your a-pillar then next to your noodle is your b-pillar and the one after that is your c-pillar. Hope that helps.

 

hey ya that helps .ken, any idea where to get a trunk hard brace and a c-pillar brace for my 1991, i can only find 98-02 ones. You missed rims/tires in your list of suspension mods And do these floor struts from ebay do anythin? Thanks!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aleks77 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey ya that helps .ken, any idea where to get a trunk hard brace and a c-pillar brace for my 1991, i can only find 98-02 ones. You missed rims/tires in your list of suspension mods And do these floor struts from ebay do anythin? Thanks!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL, yea tires are a good investment .

IMO the floor is probably the last place I would strengthen because that is where most of the welds for the frame/floorboard are...granted you could but in terms of bracing it would be more of a 'bling' piece IMHO.

They might not make c-pillar bars or a trunk brace...doesn't mean you can't make your own: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=27090

Honestly, not to down play ebay but that would be one of the last places to find quality parts; granted good stuff can be found but from my experiences it is slightly overpriced. I would look into the classifieds here in the accord forum as well as the global classifieds.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aleks77 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey ya that helps .ken, any idea where to get a trunk hard brace and a c-pillar brace for my 1991, i can only find 98-02 ones. You missed rims/tires in your list of suspension mods And do these floor struts from ebay do anythin? Thanks!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1</TD></TR></TABLE>

Where have you seen these for the 98-02, I want one

 

teh c-pillar is a good investment for those that have had their windshields break du eo tmassive g-force turns causing the glass to shatter.

and the trunk bars are very important as well, cause i have seen the spare tire pop out and bounce around from the trunk floor flexing as well.

 

oh yeah and those rear lower tie bars are a waste of time and money....for the buyer that is. i will GIVE you one for free if you come over and take it off, cause im too lazy to waste my time taking it off.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by v4lu3s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">teh c-pillar is a good investment for those that have had their windshields break du eo tmassive g-force turns causing the glass to shatter.

.</TD></TR></TABLE>

C-pillar is at the rear of the car...how would this cause your windshield to crack? Also between the pillars, aside from the struts is one of the weakest with most stress points in the chassis.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by v4lu3s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and the trunk bars are very important as well, cause i have seen the spare tire pop out and bounce around from the trunk floor flexing as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Reinforcing your bumper supports isn't important since nowhere (except at the bumper) on the chassis are they connected causing flex. If you have nothing good to add then stay out of the thread.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .ken &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">C-pillar is at the rear of the car...how would this cause your windshield to crack? Also between the pillars, aside from the struts is one of the weakest with most stress points in the chassis.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the point i am makign is those bars dont do jack ****. the rear windshield DOES NOT FLEX...meaning if hte body of the car flexed around it it WOULD SHATTER.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .ken &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Reinforcing your bumper supports isn't important since nowhere (except at the bumper) on the chassis are they connected causing flex. If you have nothing good to add then stay out of the thread.</TD></TR></TABLE>

and the poiunt of my second comment was that trunk bars are another worthless gimmick. if such a bar was important to the stiffness of the chassis it would be a factory piece for the s2000, teh integra type-r and civic type-r.

if such flexing and so on occurred in reality we would see many cars that could not be aligned after being driven hard for years...yet hondas are able to stay straight even after long years of abuse(the only cars that have issues like that are hardore track cars REAL track cars and accident victims). you want to stiffen the chassis there are 2 ways to do it right that are proven to work.

1. Cage

2. stitch welding.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by v4lu3s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
and the poiunt of my second comment was that trunk bars are another worthless gimmick. if such a bar was important to the stiffness of the chassis it would be a factory piece for the s2000, teh integra type-r and civic type-r.

if such flexing and so on occurred in reality we would see many cars that could not be aligned after being driven hard for years...yet hondas are able to stay straight even after long years of abuse(the only cars that have issues like that are hardore track cars REAL track cars and accident victims). you want to stiffen the chassis there are 2 ways to do it right that are proven to work.

1. Cage

2. stitch welding.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

So just because it isn't a 'stock' piece for the s2k, itr or ctr is must be a gimmick right? I guess either of the 3 cars you listed should come from the factory with a cage right? The guy asked about the rear lower bar and I informed him of ways to cheaply increase chassis rigidity. Cages I can see as somewhat cheap in the grand scheme of things but not everyone wants one for a daily driver or a weekend racer.

Fact is, cars from the factory do not come with very stiff chassis to allow some flex for abuse, slight crashes etc and to save weight and cost. This being said it isn't cost effective to spot weld the chassis or add bars or cages in a factory car because it isn't practical or cost effective for a typical buyer.

 

either of the 3 cars COULD have come form the factory if they were found to be effective on those chassis. they were found effective enough on certian models of the EVO and Altezza that the manufacturer placed them in the car stock.

the fact of the matter is cars come stiff enough fromt eh factory now that little bars here and there are overall not going to make a difference at all, especially a 2 point bar that bolts in on flexible mounting points.

a partial cage could work quite well, or for example a 3 point bar OR a larger X bar could help on certian models of cars in certain locations.

 

I agree to a point.

I think like most things done on cars for performance are done together or as a system. I agree that a single bar isn't going to make much of a difference but if you add a couple key placed bars you are going to significantly increase chassis rigidity. There is flex at the strut towers and also between the pillars, a cage would probably make the biggest difference but adding certain bars will add some stiffness regardless.

I can agree to disagree .

 

THe way i see it a car is a box. it has some crossbraces built into it. adding a bar can help in some ways in very specific locations as long as it is more securely attached, stiffer and has no flexible joints in it....basically it has to be better than what exists in the car already. most strut tower bars have flexible points...think of a cardboard box wth a piece of carboard taped into it

_________
| |
| |
|________|

_________
|________|
| |
|________|

the shape below is going to be negligibly stiffer than the one above in a bolt in configuration assuming use of something similar to heim joints or the standard flexible end pieces found on most bars.
if you really want to make the C pillar bar and trunkl bar work...tie them togehter with an X shaped brace....then that **** will rock. iwthout it though the gains seen are mostly placebo effect.


ok well my litle diagrams are not working in teh display...but im sure the point can be unerstood

 

I agree. Most/some braces have pivoting points that basically throw out the entire purpose of having a stiff bar. Like I said, a couple key placed bars will net good results but I failed to mention that a solid bar without any moving parts is ideal.



total waste of a bar and strengthening device.

compared to this:



This bar works very well as it ties all points together and reinforces the setup even more. Like this:

 

you'd be surprised that even those ebay strut bars do offer some more rigidity, when I installed my rear one, it made a HUGE difference, I felt it right away when turning. I have sicne taken mine off for dumb reasons, but am putting them back on one of these days.