Hi,
I am 22, and been out of school for about 2 years now, I did the whole community college thing, but it wasn't for me. I need to go to school, and the only thing that comes to my head when I think of what I want to do, is working with cars.

Basically I want to be the guy who can do crazy engine swaps, (ex. 2jz in a volvo). Also to be able to fabricate my own manifolds, headers, mounts, piping.

Does anybody know where to go to learn these kind of skills?

 

In order to fabricate manifolds (intake, exhaust, etc) for performance, you really need to know a lot of physics to find out the optimum plenum size, runner, bends, etc.

It goes beyond just knowing how to work with metal IMO.

 

Physics... right. I forgot that most of us on here have a doctorate or two from M.I.T. before we pick up a wrench. Would it help, yes. Is it necessary, absolutely not.

There are automotive schools like UTI and whatnot and then there are places where you can specifically learn welding/machining (back to community college you go! ). The most important thing is experience. Book work will only get you so far.

 

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Physics... right. I forgot that most of us on here have a doctorate or two from M.I.T. before we pick up a wrench. Would it help, yes. Is it necessary, absolutely not.
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I am sure most performance companies just guess and throw parts together at random specifications.

Or maybe thats why some headers and intake manifolds produce much better gains than others?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am sure most performance companies just guess and throw parts together at random specifications.

Or maybe thats why some headers and intake manifolds produce much better gains than others? </TD></TR></TABLE>

All the information necessary is available without taking classes at a college. Read up on the SAE website, you have to pay $15/paper but there is some really good information on there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I am sure most performance companies just guess and throw parts together at random specifications.

Or maybe thats why some headers and intake manifolds produce much better gains than others? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you speaking from experience or just our your ***? Yeah, I thought so. If he's asking this question I don't think he's worrying about getting his last 2 hp out of a 6 second car just yet.

It's crazy what you think you know when you learn everything off of the internet.

 

You need math, math, and math. Did I mention math? being a certified welder would is a bid advantage. Other than schooling you need to be doing things, thats the hard part if your broke but you do need a resume

Edit: I was thinking of a different school.


Modified by G2turbo_terror at 7:07 PM 8/11/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I am sure most performance companies just guess and throw parts together at random specifications. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You may be surprised if you really knew. Most engineers aren't all that bright. they typically overkill things so they will error in the way of caution....rather than actually do calculations, determine what is needed and maybe add something to it if necessary for strength or some other reason.

Wouldn't it be easy for the turbo manifold companies to tell you that they dyno tested 15 designs on a B18 engine, and came up with the best option? You'd never know the difference. ...or that they flowtested or dynoed different collectors and they didn't.

So, lets say you call a manifold maker and they say that they tested their collectors and they flowed just as well or better than the ones their top competitor makes...but are $150 cheaper. Would you believe them? Most people would...depending on what company it was.

How easy would it be for them to tell you their welders are certified or the welds are x rayed...when they're not? Anybody ever think to ask for the documentation? In my field of work they do, but in turbo manifold businesses it's likely never done.....leaving it easy for them to lie. It's not that the lack of certification means they suck, but having it does show proven and documented ability.

It's just a matter of whether you want to believe a biased source or use your own logic.

 

I said nothing about being an engineer, going to college, taking classes, etc

It's childish to think that you can simply learn how to make a manifold, and jump right into the high performance aspect of things.

How ever you want to learn, go for it, but there is more to it than simply metal working. Welding is not fluid dynamics, and vice versa.

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So, lets say you call a manifold maker and they say that they tested their collectors and they flowed just as well or better than the ones their top competitor makes...but are $150 cheaper. Would you believe them? Most people would...depending on what company it was.
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Some companies probably would, but those who truely know what they are doing can make head over tails more gains than the competitors. Look at the first generation of header's available for B series (ala DC sports 4-2-1 and clones). Now look at the SMS/Hytech/Clones.

The difference between simply welding tubes together and knowing how to properly design a manifold results in lightyears of difference.

But then again I am sure the Dave and John had no formal education, they simply read some SAE whitepapers.

 

It is easy to learn how to weld and start making manifolds, and doing crazy engine swaps, etc...
however, if you want to learn how to actually design and build those kinds of things, you probably want to look into getting an engineering degree. based on the things you listed, you would probably want to look into mechanical engineering. If you want to work with cars while doing this, i would suggest looking into a school with a good Formula SAE program. If you dont know about the Formula SAE competition, you can read about it here: http://students.sae.org/competitions/formulaseries/

Some schools with good SAE programs are Cornell University, Texas A&M, University of Texas at Arlington, etc...

 

Just call up Tony1 and see if you can be his apprentice for a few years.

 

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You may be surprised if you really knew. Most engineers aren't all that bright. they typically overkill things so they will error in the way of caution....rather than actually do calculations, determine what is needed and maybe add something to it if necessary for strength or some other reason.

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This is called a factor of safety (technical term ) and Civil Engineers are notorious for them! But Mechanical Engineering classes will teach you a lot about what is needed to "engineer" good performance parts. Fluid Mechanics is probably the most helpful along with Material Science. But as far as fabrication, just go to a local community college. They always have welding classes, and I bet it's a great place to start learning.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by daveG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just call up Tony1 and see if you can be his apprentice for a few years. </TD></TR></TABLE>

HAHAHAHHA, id be his shop bitch that'd be cool

 

those are the things that i want to do for a career. what did i decide? go to college to be a mechanical engineer. just seems so perfect for me, especially considereng that things like manifolds have everything to do with flow. it's also nice to have a career that you're truly interested in and have been involved in since you were about 14.