I've heard these things are fantastic autocrossers in the wet. Has anyone heard how they do on a wet race track? Any first hand experience?

I was going to go with full tread Toyo RA1s, but these things are only about $50 each. I felt I must explore further...

 

You can't beat them for $50 ea. (but it's more like $70 w/shipping).

However, I'd think 032R's might be better rain tires (60 treadwear rating vs ~200 for the Azenis).

 

But they'll be much better than running half worn kuhmo's or hoosiers (ack!) in the wet, as a cheap 2nd set to have around to gather dust or maybe AutoX once in a while.

RJ

 

I've used RA1s in the wet, and wasn't overwhelmingly thrilled with them. I've done well in the rain with the old SP8000s, and I just got a set of AVSis for the CRX. The Falkens look like they have a good tread pattern for rain, but I wonder how long they are good for. You don't need a compound THAT soft for the rain, so why put up with the poor wear characteristics? Just something to think about.

Matt

 

how about the ITR tires? those are awesome in the wet, when they have tread.

 

I'm not really sure you don't need a super soft compound in the wet.

My experience with rain is on shaved to half depth BFG ZR's (street tire), A032's, Hoosier Dirt Stockers, and BFG R1 and Hoosier R3S03's.

If the surface is just wet then the DOT tires are best - you can get enough heat in them to make them stick.

If the surface is really wet under continuous rain with standing water then the A032 is pretty good, the Dirt Stocker is fantastic, and the street tire is just plain garbage.

I don't know how well the Falken Azenis channels water, but the hardness makes me doubt that they will work well enough for a driver like you.

But they're cheap so try them. If they suck, you can burn them up by pretending you're running in a series with a spec street tire.

Scott, who has to order tires for the year ahead.......after I burn up my now more than a year old set of A032's that never saw any of the wet days I was expecting to.....

 

You've probably read my thread, but if you're thinking about trying the Azenis, you should go ahead and get your order in.

 

Glad you noticed the new "location"

Take this for what it's worth. Two of the last four cars I've instructed at VIR were ITRs on Falkens - George Knighton and El Pollo Diablo (the chicken dragon...WTF?). Both times I came away very impressed with the tire (this was in the dry). Plus, IIRC you can get them in our 225-45-15 size.

I figure they can't be that bad in the rain...no worse than a V700 or a Toyo...so I'm getting some in 205-50-15 on my OE wheels for rains. They carry the added benefit that they can be used as a backup tire at HPDEs and the occasional autocross.

Of course I hear Uniroyal makes some damn fine rain tires...called the Tiger Paw Superhard I believe. That's what you should get.

 

Ed had them on his car this past weekend. I was pretty impressed with the performance. May be the ticket.

 

Not the Chicken Dragon, the Devil Chicken. The Chicken Dragon? Now that would just be silly! LOL!


Matt

 

I forgot what I was going to say....?

Oh yeaaahhh!
Ever drive an ~79-80 trans am (with stock Tiger Paws) in the rain?

 

FWIW... Eric K. and Richard W. both agreed they'd be pretty unhappy if they had to drive on them everyday, ie in the rain on the highway occasionally.

 

The team I helped crew for last year demo'd them in the wet. The two drivers (enduro) prefered full tread RA-1's. Might have something to do with car set-up...... I do agree about the RA-1's in the real rain. Hard to get any heat in them.

 

Yes, I was amazed...I thought they would be good rain tires, but they are not. If that is all you are going to be using them for...there is better out there for the same or better price. The Kuhmo 712's were much better in the rain than the Azenis are.

 

Full tread Kumho v700's work spectacularly in the rain. I was running with them at an autocross and keeping within a second of Hoelscher while it was really coming down. Then it stopped raining and I didn't stay with him anymore... They felt great and weren't unpredictable at all.
But that was with standing water everywhere, and big puddles, and I think he was on Hoosiers.
I also have experience with the 712's in the rain, though only on the street. Bulletproof in the rain. Probably not good for a competition tire, though.

 

I took these out on a full downpour one day and they stuck like glue. I was going about the same speed around turns as I would in the dry.

 

When I had the 712s, i could not make them hydroplane, even when they had VERY little tread on them. The other day we had a light downpour here, and it caused some standing water, maybe .2" worth or whatever, and my Azenis started hydroplaning, not uncontrollably, but i could feel the car starting to slide.

 

I don't think treadwear means a damn thing in the wet. You need grooves and channels for the water to get the hell out of the way.

The Azenis treadpattern doesn't look so great in the wet to me. These autocrossers aren't going 110 mph across the river on the front straight either.

Full tread Kumho Victoracers are really good in rain IMO. Haven't run on Toyos, but I here they are not bad at full tread in the rain either.

 

For some reason that just sounds funny

 

You can laugh, but at VIR in the rain, that is exactly what you are doing...

I have little comparison experience, but I really like my Toyo RA1s in the rain. Beats the heck out of the street tires (RE71s) I've run in the rain.

 

However much I like the Ecsta 712 on the street in the rain, I really dislike it on track. I had considerably more grip with the A032Rs and Scott, you should remember that (ugh!). I have not had the full tread Toyos out in the *rain* but did go out on a very soaked RR two weeks ago on them and was blown away at how grippy they were.

For me in the wet:
Full tread Toyos
Yok A032R
Bridgey RE-71
Kumho Ecsta 712

Sorry I could lend not info on the Azenis

 

I'll second that comment. No doubt the Azenis are a great bang for buck and if that's what your looking for, then you can't go wrong with these tires. But, if you need pole setting kind of lap times, *no* street tire in any condition will get you those if you're racing against other experienced drivers on R-compound tires. Two years ago we tried just that. In a wet qualifying session around R.A. I ran on half worn V700s, while Louis B. ran on RE71s (very good street tires) on his crx just to see. He was almost 5 seconds per lap slower and consequently he got 8th on the grid and I got 2nd. And Louis is a very good rain driver. Tom F. told us before we tried this "experiment" that street tires just don't have a place in a racing environment if your goal is to be a front runner, but we wanted to see for ourselves. I'm sure for a track day a good street tire might feel fast in the wet (and probably it can put out some decent lap times), but when you get out the stop watches and you're running against other competitive racecars, it's a different story. For a while now, our rain tire of choice (and also many other racers') is the full tread RA-1. I'm sure the V700 is also really good.

A street tire can keep up with the performance of an R-tire in the wet for a couple of laps, but once the softer R-compound tire starts building heat, the contest is over.

Also, in those rare "flood" conditions the hoosier dirt stockers(still don't know how to spell it) cannot be beat.

 

So what about Dunlop SP 9000s? Don't they use those as a rain tire for some huge race series? I could've sworn I have a pic of last year's Bentley prototype wearing them. Might've been in Racecar Engineering a little while back, anybody else remember? (RR98ITR, any other frequent readers of that magazine?)