I just bought the Snow Performance Stage 1 and i was wondering who else has this set-up and if you have any tips helping with the tune. Thanks.

 

nobody?

 

yeah i have a tip. i installed a few of those kits. good choice. Anyway, you should make a custom tap right above the blower outlet in the manifold. So the water/alky dispersion would be equal. Also you need to buy the solenoid upgrade so that the vacuum from the motor doesnt pull the water through the pump when your not boosting. The solenoid upgrade is 40 bucks and i wouldn't install the nozzle in the manifold without it. Also use the smaller of the two nozzles that come with the kit. Or get a nozzle from aquamist. I could get more in depth but i dont feel like writting right now. If you need more help PM me or post back here.

 

oh yeah and another tip, use the windshield washer fluid that is a 50/50 mix of water and methanol. Look at the side of the bottle and it should say "danger combustable" or something like that. Thats the one you want to use just incase something goes haywire and the pump sprays at idle or something you will not hydrolock the motor because the fluid will actually ignite like gasoline. If you use straight water and something goes wrong bye bye motor.

 

Thanks a lot man that was good info.
Now for my questions, lol
What do you mean when you said "you should make a custom tap right above the blower outlet in the manifold"? Where’s that? I was going to tap the short ram intake I have right before the throttle body. Is that a bad place?
I included a picture of my set-up. If you can circle where you would suggest I should make the tap.
And feel free to write more tips/suggestions if you have the time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BxCrx91 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh yeah and another tip, use the windshield washer fluid that is a 50/50 mix of water and methanol. Look at the side of the bottle and it should say "danger combustable" or something like that. Thats the one you want to use just incase something goes haywire and the pump sprays at idle or something you will not hydrolock the motor because the fluid will actually ignite like gasoline. If you use straight water and something goes wrong bye bye motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

**** methanol and water.

PURE METH FOR LIFE

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DC2-JRSC’d &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks a lot man that was good info.
Now for my questions, lol
What do you mean when you said "you should make a custom tap right above the blower outlet in the manifold"? Where’s that? I was going to tap the short ram intake I have right before the throttle body. Is that a bad place?
I included a picture of my set-up. If you can circle where you would suggest I should make the tap.
And feel free to write more tips/suggestions if you have the time.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wouldn't tap it there, because then the water/alky will be running through the blower. The blower blades have really tight tolerances and running the water through it may or may not mess things up. I personally never ran the water injection kits through the blower blades because i didn't want to find anything out the hard way. On a turbo car the intake would be fine, because its after the compressor. However, some people will argue that the muscle car guys with the blowers coming out of the hood run nitrous through the blowers all the time. But then again nitrous isn't a liquid and who knows if any of them ran wet shots or not.
The tap i usually would make would be right above the "HA" in the word supercharger. Pretty much dead center of four allen key bolts that hold the charger to the manifold. This is why i said you need to get the solenoid upgrade as well because the vacuum in the manifold would suck the water up through the pump even when the pump isn't spraying. Ask Matt at snow performance how to wire in the solenoid. If the tap was in the intake the vacuum wouldn't be a problem, but because you would want to tap the manifold the solenoid is necessary. The guys who usually run the snow performance kit are mustang guys with centrifugal blowers and they could tap the intake because its after the blower.
The only thing about making that tap above the "HA" is that the manifold would have to come off to get all the metal shavings out. If you don't want to remove the manifold your other option is that you use the factory jackson racing water injection tap, the one that is plugged with a bolt. That tap is for a .05mm aquamist nozzle that could be purchase from aquamist or from jackson itself for like 20 bucks. This nozzle will fit right in the manifold, but you have to purchase about 2 feet of .5mm line from aquamist, because that the size of the male end of the aquamist nozzle. Then you would have to go to autozone and get a vaccum line adapter to fit the snow performance red water line to the aquamist .5mm line. I hope i didn't cofuse you. It sounds like a lot of work, buts its really not that bad. BTW don't listen to the guy who says run straight methanol, becasue that would be a waste of money. The 50/50 mix is perfect and like i said its combustable so it won't hydrolock the motor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Razor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Reason to not use straight alcohol with the aquamist setup is that it will kill their pump.

Design to blow straight alcohol, run mix and compare knock readings vs running straight. Every platform tested using a knock sensor has responded better with straight alcohol when the real squeeze has been done.

If the car runs 15 PSI cleanly.. all you want is 17 PSI.. straight water/mix will quench the detonation. The deal I get into is run 15 PSI cleanly and want to run 25 PSI cleanly.. thats when you get into 30-40% fuel replacement and get the job done. Some cars run upwards of 40-50% replacement and get away with murder on 93 octane.

Jerry's car here in Tampa runs 35 PSI on 93 octane. 1997 Mirage, 2700 lbs + driver, full interior car, on kumo 18 inch street radials, 1.8 60 foot, ran 6.60 @108 1/8 and a 10.4 at 132 off the rev limiter. His car with the aquamist setup fastest it ever went was an 11.3. Switching from mix to straight.. it immediately dropped him to 10.8. Bigger turbo, more boost + AEM.. 10.4's..

Leave ya with this, ECS shot straight alcohol through a MAF back in Sept last year.. kinda barbaric.. car picked up 15 HP 25 TQ zero changes. Doug has easy over 800+ Dyno pulls on an injection kit.. as you saw the link above.. proof is in the pudding. With any water/mix system, there is no power gain on a non detonating tuned engine unless something else is changed. Like timing or boost. With alcohol.. the forced induction car runs like winter in the summer.

As much as I've messed with mixes.. no way the same power can be had running straight VP M1 methanol.

So I have Buicks, DSM's, Vette's, Supra's.. run on stock computers, AEM's, FAST, BS3.. all with zero issues running straight methanol.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is from the turbomustangs.com forums. Razor is the guy who runs http://www.alkycontrol.com, and he swears by 100% methanol. He's also installed numerous alcohol injection kits onto 2003/2004 Mustang Cobras that come stock with an Eaton M112 blower, and he always sprays 100% methanol before the blower.

 

well i would rather get the factory jackson racing water injection tap just to keep the install pretty clean. i still need the solenoid upgrade right?
feel free to add anything else you can think of.

i will also research more about 100% methanol vs mixed. my friends also told me to run mixed but well see. hell when i get everything installed i might take it to a dyno and run mixed vs 100% and see if theres any difference.

 

I've read that the alky is good for mo' power, but water is better at cooling the charge, and preventng pre-ignition. Any truth to this??? Im thinking about running a Turbo w/out and IC.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DC2-JRSC’d &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i would rather get the factory jackson racing water injection tap just to keep the install pretty clean. i still need the solenoid upgrade right?
feel free to add anything else you can think of.

i will also research more about 100% methanol vs mixed. my friends also told me to run mixed but well see. hell when i get everything installed i might take it to a dyno and run mixed vs 100% and see if theres any difference.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Lets see, how many kits have your friends installed and tuned? None, maybe one or two. Julio has produced hundreds of kits, and installed and tuned them on dozens of cars. Taking your friends advice over his would be like listening to your friend who watches ER over a neurosurgeon when you're deciding if you need surgury or not.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DreamCatcher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've read that the alky is good for mo' power, but water is better at cooling the charge, and preventng pre-ignition. Any truth to this??? Im thinking about running a Turbo w/out and IC. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Nope. You run a mix of water and meth, you can only add so much before your car starts bogging and you lose horsepower. You can add as much meth to it as you want. It's a fuel. Read that post again, he installed his kit on a DSM that runs 35 pounds of boost on 93 octane. If you get some detonation, just add more alcohol. At some point with water you can't do that anymore.

 

b16sedan not to change this thread into a arguement, but it would still be a waste for this particular situation where the blower would be maxed out at 10-11psi and running a 50/50 mix would be more than enough to suppress detonation for this situation. And another problem running straight methanol for a daily driver is that once you tune with straight methanol then all you want to run is straight methanol and there are only select places at select businsess hours where you can get stright methanol. The 50/50 mix is readily available at almost any time of the day at most gas stations. In my opinion if you want to run record psi on pump gas and methanol injection, just keep it simply and mix in some race gas in the tank run the 50/50 water alky mix and call it a day.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DreamCatcher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've read that the alky is good for mo' power, but water is better at cooling the charge, and preventng pre-ignition. Any truth to this??? Im thinking about running a Turbo w/out and IC. </TD></TR></TABLE>

To my knowledge both water and alcohol disperse heat better than air. The way you make good power with the water/alky setups are by running slightly more boost or the same amount of boost and alittle more timing, or a little of both. Most jackson setups are boost limited at 10-11 psi so i would normally find the power gains with increasing timing. Turbo cars with a front mount i would usually slightly advance timing and run a psi or 2 more. Turbo without a intercooler and just water injection, i would treat it like it had a intercooler and nothing else, no extra psi or slightly aggresive timing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BxCrx91 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">b16sedan not to change this thread into a arguement, but it would still be a waste for this particular situation where the blower would be maxed out at 10-11psi and running a 50/50 mix would be more than enough to suppress detonation for this situation. And another problem running straight methanol for a daily driver is that once you tune with straight methanol then all you want to run is straight methanol and there are only select places at select businsess hours where you can get stright methanol. The 50/50 mix is readily available at almost any time of the day at most gas stations. In my opinion if you want to run record psi on pump gas and methanol injection, just keep it simply and mix in some race gas in the tank run the 50/50 water alky mix and call it a day. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why would methanol be a waste? Switching a car from gasoline to methanol is worth 8-10% in power. When you're spraying pure methanol you will make more power than you could on gasoline, or on a mix. It's like a small shot of nitrous, without dicking with bottle pressure or refills. Spraying methanol into 2003/2004 Cobras with the eaton blowers you still gain power spraying meth into them, even when you're spinning the blower to the max, it's just the way methanol is.

And for one I don't like running windshield washer through a meth kit period, there's lots of detergents and crap (hence it being windshield WASHER fluid) that is not very good for your pump. We bought a 55 gallon drum of meth for my room mates car and it was like 130 bucks including the drum deposit. He has a mustang with a non intercooled blower, sprays a ton of meth, and goes through maybe a gallon a week, and we use a 3-gallon cell mounted in the back of the car. I'd much rather run pure meth in a bigger cell than try and dickaround with windshield washer fluid in a tiny container up front in the car. And for the record, I fail to see how a 50/50 mix of water and methanol is easier than pumping methanol out of a drum into a fuel cell, adding a bit of MMO, and going.

 

b16sedan - first of all i didnt say i will take my friends advice or yours. all i said is ill look more into it. as you can tell there will always be mixed opinions and im just trying to figure whats best for my car.

now im not switching from gas to methonal, im just adding methanol, and BxCrx91 is right im only running 10 psi for now. Also the kit im buying is advertised as a "Water/methanol injection system" so if i run 100% methanol will that hurt the pump? Also I'm not installing a fuel cell, i'm just going to tap my windshield wiper reservor.

 

b16sedan, not every one has room for a 55 drum of meth or access to a place to get methanol in a 55 gallon drum. The only place i've seen pure methanol was at the paint department in home depot and the biggest they had was a gallon or so. And the 50/50 mix in the winshield washer fluid shouldn't hurt the pump one bit, i've had friends run the snow performance kit with the 50/50 mix for over two years. Pump still sounds smooth. But back to the car on hand, the 50/50 is all he'll ever need. I have done 30 degrees of timing at 8800 rpm with 9.5 psi and 93 octane on a jrsc gsr before. Not a ping in sight and car was making 260-270ish at the wheels. Thats alittle on the aggressive side but that gives you an idea of what i have personally done with the 50/50 mix on hondas.

DC2 if your going to tap your existing tank make sure your pump is located lower than the tank. Oh yeah and to answer your other question, yes to use the factory jrsc tap you will need the solenoid upgrade.

 

where in the engine bay do you usually install the pump? i still have ps, cruise, abs, etc, pretty much everything but ac.

 

replying because I'm goin to reply later after I'm out of work. But in short, 50/50 is just fine for you man. See you later.

 

hey i have another quick question. if i want to buy the water jet from jackson or aquamist what size should i get?
The size jackson sells with the kit is 0.5mm and only flows 150cc/m at 5 bar, and i think thats too small for using it with the snow performance kit. do you know how much the smaller nozzle of the snowperformance flows?

here is a chart with the jet sizes from aquamist:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/sl/plist/frm-4-USD.html

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DC2-JRSC’d &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where in the engine bay do you usually install the pump? i still have ps, cruise, abs, etc, pretty much everything but ac.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i mounted my pump behind the bumper cover. where my horn was mounted.
i moved my horn and put it here:

 

I am planning on running water/meth in my turbocharged ls/vtec eg. I have no engine room left. whould it be able to install everything in the trunk, and run a line to the engine bay.
where in the intake would a good place to install the nozzle on a turbo setup? I don't want to tap my charge pipe. will a stage one kit be safe enough to run 20+ psi sc61?

 

I'm running a custom WI kit on my JRSC D16Y8. I am spraying the water/meth before the blower and before the throttlebody just like how the KB Cobra guys do. It's a lot more effective in cooling down the blades and vaporize the water before it enters the motor for more consistency.

I've been running this setup for 4 years and over 80000 miles already. I can't guarantee that it won't harm the supercharger, but no problems with mine so far.


Here's the engine... The waer jet is located just below the yellow breather hose on the intake pipe. Don't mind the secondary injectors that are installed on the blower manifold.



Here's the car:

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tony the Tiger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm running a custom WI kit on my JRSC D16Y8. I am spraying the water/meth before the blower and before the throttlebody just like how the KB Cobra guys do. It's a lot more effective in cooling down the blades and vaporize the water before it enters the motor for more consistency.

I've been running this setup for 4 years and over 80000 miles already. I can't guarantee that it won't harm the supercharger, but no problems with mine so far.


Here's the engine... The waer jet is located just below the yellow breather hose on the intake pipe. Don't mind the secondary injectors that are installed on the blower manifold.



Here's the car:
</TD></TR></TABLE>

show off

 

I personally like to run 50% distilled and 50% denatured for my daily driver. I personally think METH is cool for a race car but that **** is way to toxic. Who wants to get pickled from the inside out? I certaintly don't.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rudebwoy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am planning on running water/meth in my turbocharged ls/vtec eg. I have no engine room left. whould it be able to install everything in the trunk, and run a line to the engine bay.
where in the intake would a good place to install the nozzle on a turbo setup? I don't want to tap my charge pipe. will a stage one kit be safe enough to run 20+ psi sc61?</TD></TR></TABLE>

people mount large meth reservoirs in the trunk all the time. that should work, though Snow's site says it's best to have it as close as possible to where it will be used.
if you plumb the nozzle AFTER the throttle body, you will need to get Snow's solenoid, as mentioned above.
the stages go by horsepower rating. to know which is good for you, check their site. all info is listed there.
i'd also suggest little upgrades like the low-fluid level indicator upgrade and the check valve. you kinda HAVE to do the check valve, especially at 20psi. it keeps the water/meth from backing up due to boost pressure and the low-fluid level indicator? TRUST me when i say it will save your motor. i'm ordering one tomorrow.
check with Snow to be sure no other upgrades are necessary due to installing the kit waaaaaay back in the trunk.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sohc_turd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I personally like to run 50% distilled and 50% denatured for my daily driver. I personally think METH is cool for a race car but that **** is way to toxic. Who wants to get pickled from the inside out? I certaintly don't.</TD></TR></TABLE>

it's just alcohol. i've never had any issues. it's 50% diluted with water. it's not like i drink it or anything...