I'm thinking of upgrading my DC2 R suspension. After the experience of this last track day I decided I should go ahead with an upgrade.

I did the following chart: http://pwp.netcabo.pt/pedrovtec/forum/spring.htm

Any sugestions or corrections are welcome!

I was thinking of spending around 800-900USD. :D

Cya.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PahLok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was thinking of spending around 800-900USD. </TD></TR></TABLE>

If this is your budget, I would only change to Koni shocks for now.

Then later add Ground Control coilovers with maybe 450/550 spring rates when funds allow.

 

Great chart, but what did you want to change about the characteristics of your car?

 

I want to diminish body roll

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PahLok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I want to diminish body roll</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why?

 

I use my car on track and roda

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PahLok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I use my car on track and roda </TD></TR></TABLE>

That doesn't explain why body roll is bad.

I don't understand.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That doesn't explain why body roll is bad.

I don't understand.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not saying that it's bad.. I'm saying that I want to reduce it because I use the car on track.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PahLok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not saying that it's bad.. I'm saying that I want to reduce it because I use the car on track.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If it's not bad, then what's the problem?

Don't get me wrong, I use my car on the track also. Body roll was never an issue for me, however.

I'd simply upgrade to Koni shocks, as I suggested before.

 

I just want to reduce it so I can get better lap times.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PahLok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just want to reduce it so I can get better lap times. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why would you get better lap times with reduced body roll? What is the data behind this conclusion? I am being difficult on purpose, see below:

The reason why Todd is asking you these questions is for to realize that it is true that a different suspension (springs, shocks, roll bars) can make the Type R handle better, however, usually the suspension doesn't need to be updgraded until the driver out drives the suspension. I HAVE NO IDEA about your driving ability, all I can talk is from experience. In my experience, I didn't reach the capabilities of the stock R's suspension until I started to race.

I would examine yourself first for better lap times, ie, take an instructor or a pro driver with you... THEN upgrade the car. I would bet that the car is not slowing your lap times, but yourself.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by davidnyc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Why would you get better lap times with reduced body roll? What is the data behind this conclusion? I am being difficult on purpose, see below:

The reason why Todd is asking you these questions is for to realize that it is true that a different suspension (springs, shocks, roll bars) can make the Type R handle better, however, usually the suspension doesn't need to be updgraded until the driver out drives the suspension. I HAVE NO IDEA about your driving ability, all I can talk is from experience. In my experience, I didn't reach the capabilities of the stock R's suspension until I started to race.

I would examine yourself first for better lap times, ie, take an instructor or a pro driver with you... THEN upgrade the car. I would bet that the car is not slowing your lap times, but yourself.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I do understand your concern and I do appreciate it (that includes you Reid). That's what I've been doing for the last year or so with my teg.. just practicing and mastering it's stock handling. I have driven more than once with a professional (and friend) pilot on the passenger seat and on the driver's seat and I assure you I have learned a lot.
There is at least one corner at our home track that can be made flat out if I upgrade my grip (I already use slick tires), you can win a lot of time just by doing that corner flat out.
The guys that run on the Civic Type R series over here do it flat out thanks to their suspension and slick tires.

Thanks for your help!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PahLok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I do understand your concern and I do appreciate it (that includes you Reid). That's what I've been doing for the last year or so with my teg.. just practicing and mastering it's stock handling. I have driven more than once with a professional (and friend) pilot on the passenger seat and on the driver's seat and I assure you I have learned a lot.
There is at least one corner at our home track that can be made flat out if I upgrade my grip (I already use slick tires), you can win a lot of time just by doing that corner flat out.
The guys that run on the Civic Type R series over here do it flat out thanks to their suspension and slick tires.

Thanks for your help! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Another thing is, that the stock ITR suspension is so great that I don't think you're going to find a complete solution for 800-900.

That's the reason I suggested simply upgrading to Koni shocks first.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Another thing is, that the stock ITR suspension is so great that I don't think you're going to find a complete solution for 800-900.

That's the reason I suggested simply upgrading to Koni shocks first. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I do have to agree with you, 800-900USD is not going to get me very far. When I had my EG9 I quite liked the Bilsteins over the Konis. What do you think between these two? I can get some super prices for Bilsteins here in Portugal.

Thanks for keeping up with me!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PahLok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I do have to agree with you, 800-900USD is not going to get me very far. When I had my EG9 I quite liked the Bilsteins over the Konis. What do you think between these two? I can get some super prices for Bilsteins here in Portugal.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you can get much better deals on Bilsteins, I would go with those.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PahLok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for keeping up with me! </TD></TR></TABLE>

No problem.

 

GREAT You have taken the most important step, upgrading yourself.

Some cheap suggestions to improve handling for you:
1. Alignment. Make sure your alignment is where you want it to be.
2. Camber kit. Maybe you can get more grip in corners with more camber.
3. Rear roll bar. Up the bar and get some rotation. This may reduce understeer.
4. Reducing mass (remove some interior pieces, lightweight wheels, lightweight seats (only with roll bar, so this will add back some weight), remove power steering, etc.)
5. Shocks as was mentioned before.

All of the 5 things above will probably be within your budget.

 

^^^

nice list

some people are soo caught up in the super high spring rates and ultra stiff suspension = fast concept.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PahLok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
...I quite liked the Bilsteins over the Konis. What do you think between these two? I can get some super prices for Bilsteins here in Portugal. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd definitely agree w/my friends here that if you can get a better price for Bilsteins, I'd go that route.

You have the added benefit that Bilsteins will handle higher spring rates that out of the box Koni Yellow will not handle.

That way your next step could be simple spring coilovers with the Bilsteins.

Your spring chart does not really reflect the fact that Ground Control will give you whatever spring rates you want. Many of us have found that the combination of a better damper (like the Bilsteins) and Ground Controls with something like 400 # F and 500# R is a wonderful setup that can still be driven in complete comfort on the street.

It will be flatter cornering than what you have now, will increase rotation without having to lower the car unusually or spend money on swaybars, and it could be all you need.

Also as my friends have done, I would caution you to make sure you are getting proper instruction with your driving technique and that you are sure what it is you want to change on the car.

One extra caution: Be careful listening to your CTR buddies when they talk about the spring rates they are using. 1200# springs in the rear of the CTR is only the equivalent of about 800# springs on the DC2 ITR, because of a huge difference in how the springs affect the total wheel rate on the newer cars.

 

Thank you very much for all the advice.. I'll keep you guys posted on any news

 

Some good suggestions and consensus in this other thread ... if I say so myself.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1328323