LS/Vtec....GSR or ITR rods
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LS/Vtec....GSR or ITR rods
Well, I'm in the process of building a LS/Vtec using a B18b and a B16a2 head. But the internals I'm concerned about. So Which is going to be better for the all motor route. So GSR rod's or ITR rods with ITR pistons. Or should I just find somone who can shot-pin the LS rods with ITR pistons. Basically, this is just another project of mine and I wanted some opinions about Rods to use. Thanks
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From: albany, ny, usa
Re: (PogKai)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PogKai »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they're not so different. Go with the one that you can find.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you ******* kidding me? Dont give advice on things you know nothing about. Match the rods with the crank, ls rods, ls crank, gsr rods, gsr crank. Stick with jdn itr pistons or a set of p30's
Are you ******* kidding me? Dont give advice on things you know nothing about. Match the rods with the crank, ls rods, ls crank, gsr rods, gsr crank. Stick with jdn itr pistons or a set of p30's
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From: northern, ma, US
lets see...use gsr or itr rods and completely elimnate the longer stroke...now that makes a whole bunch of sense....like purple mention'd....ls crank w/ ls rods....and just get some arp rod bolts and youll be good to go
B*a*n*n*e*d
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From: Spokane, WA
Re: LS/Vtec....GSR or ITR rods (GreyDel)
the whole point of the ls/vtec is the shorter LS rods which give the engine that little bit of extra torque..
Modified by Hapexamendios at 4:15 PM 8/6/2005
Modified by Hapexamendios at 4:15 PM 8/6/2005
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From: Halifax, NS, Canada
Re: LS/Vtec....GSR or ITR rods (GreyDel)
Good Lord there are stupid people out there. Please do us all a favor and wear a sign!
That was not directed to most of you out there.
Shot peen LS Rods or (I'm going out to untreaded waters here) get aftermarket LS rods (not sure if they exist, I just shot peened mine). B16A pistons will give you the highest compression if I'm not mistaken but now that I think of it, it might matter on what head you use. Long story short, LS Rods B16A pistons (forged perferably) or B18C5 pistons and go with ARP rod bolts, perhaps a block girddle for piece of mind if you want to take it to 8 grand and engine management to find all that power. my results were good so most of this is from experience.
B16A pistons, LS rods, B16A head = 11.63:1 Compression
B18C5 pistons, LS rods, B16A head = 11.3:1 Compression (aprox)
Adjust whatever you need for your application of the Type R head.
Sorry for littering this post with typos.
That was not directed to most of you out there.
Shot peen LS Rods or (I'm going out to untreaded waters here) get aftermarket LS rods (not sure if they exist, I just shot peened mine). B16A pistons will give you the highest compression if I'm not mistaken but now that I think of it, it might matter on what head you use. Long story short, LS Rods B16A pistons (forged perferably) or B18C5 pistons and go with ARP rod bolts, perhaps a block girddle for piece of mind if you want to take it to 8 grand and engine management to find all that power. my results were good so most of this is from experience.
B16A pistons, LS rods, B16A head = 11.63:1 Compression
B18C5 pistons, LS rods, B16A head = 11.3:1 Compression (aprox)
Adjust whatever you need for your application of the Type R head.
Sorry for littering this post with typos.
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From: northern, ma, US
a block girdle is not needed...take my ls/vtec turbo for example....ringin it out to 8200 no problem....
yes they make aftermarket rods for ls's...
and for all you people who lack the knowledge....a b18c1 and b18b block is the same casting...only dif is the b18c has oil squirters....the diiference is in the crank and rod length
yes they make aftermarket rods for ls's...
and for all you people who lack the knowledge....a b18c1 and b18b block is the same casting...only dif is the b18c has oil squirters....the diiference is in the crank and rod length
B A N N E D
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From: blah
Re: (drumking15)
you can build a reliable ls/vtec with oem components. ls rods with arp bolts will work fine. if you can find a set of p30 pistons, then great. otherwise, pr3's are just as good(slightly lower cr).
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From: albany, ny, usa
Re: (drumking15)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drumking15 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a block girdle is not needed...take my ls/vtec turbo for example....ringin it out to 8200 no problem....
yes they make aftermarket rods for ls's...
and for all you people who lack the knowledge....a b18c1 and b18b block is the same casting...only dif is the b18c has oil squirters....the diiference is in the crank and rod length</TD></TR></TABLE>
Guess you have never seen the 2 blocks side by side, they are not the same casting.
yes they make aftermarket rods for ls's...
and for all you people who lack the knowledge....a b18c1 and b18b block is the same casting...only dif is the b18c has oil squirters....the diiference is in the crank and rod length
</TD></TR></TABLE>Guess you have never seen the 2 blocks side by side, they are not the same casting.
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From: northern, ma, US
Re: (PURPLETERROR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PURPLETERROR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Guess you have never seen the 2 blocks side by side, they are not the same casting.</TD></TR></TABLE>
actaully i have...sorry the block webbing is exacltly the same...but all in all its the same
actaully i have...sorry the block webbing is exacltly the same...but all in all its the same
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From: West Hartford, CT
Re: (drumking15)
Yep your right. There are slight differences between them but they are the same casting. As far as not using a crank girdle i've seen and heard both sides of the argument. Its not a bad thing to have becuase it does strengthen the bottom end. There is a reason why H put it in their VTEC models 
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From: northern, ma, US
obviously its there for a reason...but unless you wrappin it out to 10k...i perosnlly dont think its worth it...and im running forged rods and pistons...spiiing it to 8200 boostid...havent had any problems yet
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Re: (drumking15)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drumking15 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and for all you people who lack the knowledge....a b18c1 and b18b block is the same casting...only dif is the b18c has oil squirters....the diiference is in the crank and rod length </TD></TR></TABLE>
Speaking of lacking knowledge. Did you pull that "fact" from your ***? You are way the hell off here.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Speaking of lacking knowledge. Did you pull that "fact" from your ***? You are way the hell off here.
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Re: (93b16hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93b16hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yep your right. There are slight differences between them but they are the same casting. As far as not using a crank girdle i've seen and heard both sides of the argument. Its not a bad thing to have becuase it does strengthen the bottom end. There is a reason why H put it in their VTEC models </TD></TR></TABLE>
You will notice that most all of the engines honda makes that are designed for "higher" rpm that have less then "ideal" rod to stroke ratios use the girdles.
</TD></TR></TABLE>You will notice that most all of the engines honda makes that are designed for "higher" rpm that have less then "ideal" rod to stroke ratios use the girdles.
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From: northern, ma, US
hmm thats odd why dont they use them on ls's then...they have a worse rod to stroke ratio......and um no i didnt pull it from my ***...in fact i think ill dig up some pics to shove um up yours
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Re: (drumking15)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drumking15 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hmm thats odd why dont they use them on ls's then...they have a worse rod to stroke ratio......and um no i didnt pull it from my ***...in fact i think ill dig up some pics to shove um up yours </TD></TR></TABLE>
Could be because the 7,000rpm redline doesn't dictate the use of a girdle, asshat. Get to digging, because an LS block and a GSR block are NOT the same casting.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Could be because the 7,000rpm redline doesn't dictate the use of a girdle, asshat. Get to digging, because an LS block and a GSR block are NOT the same casting.
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From: olympia, washington
Re: (Hybrid93Eg)
if a girdle is mandatory then why dont b16's have them?i know the r/s ratio is better but still...i can only speak from experience but i had a ls vtec with only arp rod bolts and pr3 pistons in the shortblock that i spun past 9k(sometimes up to 9500) all day long with no problems ever..i even ran a 65 shot of nitrous on it with no problems either 
..i really dont think a girdle or forged rods and pistons a necesary for a mild all motor build..just my 2 cents
..i really dont think a girdle or forged rods and pistons a necesary for a mild all motor build..just my 2 cents
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From: olympia, washington
Re: (reactiondc2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drumking15 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
and for all you people who lack the knowledge....a b18c1 and b18b block is the same casting...only dif is the b18c has oil squirters....the diiference is in the crank and rod length </TD></TR></TABLE>
if they are the same casting then why do you have to plug the bottom of the head and run an oil feed line...jus wondering
and for all you people who lack the knowledge....a b18c1 and b18b block is the same casting...only dif is the b18c has oil squirters....the diiference is in the crank and rod length </TD></TR></TABLE>
if they are the same casting then why do you have to plug the bottom of the head and run an oil feed line...jus wondering
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Re: (reactiondc2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by reactiondc2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if a girdle is mandatory then why dont b16's have them?i know the r/s ratio is better but still...i can only speak from experience but i had a ls vtec with only arp rod bolts and pr3 pistons in the shortblock that i spun past 9k(sometimes up to 9500) all day long with no problems ever..i even ran a 65 shot of nitrous on it with no problems either ..i really dont think a girdle or forged rods and pistons a necesary for a mild all motor build..just my 2 cents
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hold up there man. I NEVER said they were mandatory. I am only stating why I believe Honda put them on SOME of the engines. The B16 has a very "optimal" rod/stroke ratio. The whole point of the girdle is to help reduce crank flex and block flex. Is it something that is absolutely 100% needed? I don't think so in all applications. Is it something that will hurt? No. Would it be a smart idea to use one? Certainly. Like I said, can't hurt and would only reinforce the block more.
..i really dont think a girdle or forged rods and pistons a necesary for a mild all motor build..just my 2 cents</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hold up there man. I NEVER said they were mandatory. I am only stating why I believe Honda put them on SOME of the engines. The B16 has a very "optimal" rod/stroke ratio. The whole point of the girdle is to help reduce crank flex and block flex. Is it something that is absolutely 100% needed? I don't think so in all applications. Is it something that will hurt? No. Would it be a smart idea to use one? Certainly. Like I said, can't hurt and would only reinforce the block more.
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Re: (reactiondc2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by reactiondc2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
if they are the same casting then why do you have to plug the bottom of the head and run an oil feed line...jus wondering</TD></TR></TABLE>
Because they are not the same casting. I think he is trying to say they are somewhat similar. In addition to the oil supply passage found in the Vtec blocks, you also have additional block webbing (block strengthening) and the oil squirter passages as well. All proof that the casting is NOT the same.
if they are the same casting then why do you have to plug the bottom of the head and run an oil feed line...jus wondering</TD></TR></TABLE>
Because they are not the same casting. I think he is trying to say they are somewhat similar. In addition to the oil supply passage found in the Vtec blocks, you also have additional block webbing (block strengthening) and the oil squirter passages as well. All proof that the casting is NOT the same.
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From: Searching...
Re: (Hybrid93Eg)
For one...ALL of the guys who are arguing about this and that....WOW!!! Seriously, get a link to FACTUAL INFORMATION to back up what you are saying.
For TWO: <U>SEARCH!!!!!!!!</U> There is an infinite amount of info on the questions you are asking.
For THREE and most important: People who do ask questions or give WRONG answers to those questions are NOT informed and should not be flamed for it but merely given the correct info in a NICE WAY. None of this "Are FU$*#ng Kidding me..." stuff. remember, we all come to HT for knowledge and comraderie for and about Honda topics. If you can't say something in a nice way, SHUT ^!!!
We do have some little tid-bits about LS/b20-vtecs on our website. Please feel free to roam the How-tos and forums.
http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto.php
http://www.c-speedracing.com
Sorry for butting in to your guys little quarrel but reading this gave me a headache.
For TWO: <U>SEARCH!!!!!!!!</U> There is an infinite amount of info on the questions you are asking.
For THREE and most important: People who do ask questions or give WRONG answers to those questions are NOT informed and should not be flamed for it but merely given the correct info in a NICE WAY. None of this "Are FU$*#ng Kidding me..." stuff. remember, we all come to HT for knowledge and comraderie for and about Honda topics. If you can't say something in a nice way, SHUT ^!!!
We do have some little tid-bits about LS/b20-vtecs on our website. Please feel free to roam the How-tos and forums.
http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto.php
http://www.c-speedracing.com
Sorry for butting in to your guys little quarrel but reading this gave me a headache.
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Re: (C-speed Ricer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by C-speed Ricer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For one...ALL of the guys who are arguing about this and that....WOW!!! Seriously, get a link to FACTUAL INFORMATION to back up what you are saying.
For TWO: <U>SEARCH!!!!!!!!</U> There is an infinite amount of info on the questions you are asking.
For THREE and most important: People who do ask questions or give WRONG answers to those questions are NOT informed and should not be flamed for it but merely given the correct info in a NICE WAY. None of this "Are FU$*#ng Kidding me..." stuff. remember, we all come to HT for knowledge and comraderie for and about Honda topics. If you can't say something in a nice way, SHUT ^!!!
We do have some little tid-bits about LS/b20-vtecs on our website. Please feel free to roam the How-tos and forums.
http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto.php
http://www.c-speedracing.com
Sorry for butting in to your guys little quarrel but reading this gave me a headache.</TD></TR></TABLE>
One could even question the "factual" information on your site.. Seems everyone goes there and then swears that CTR pistons are only ~11.7:1 in a B16 (or whatever your calculator used to say)... right now, the calculator doesn't work at all..
For TWO: <U>SEARCH!!!!!!!!</U> There is an infinite amount of info on the questions you are asking.
For THREE and most important: People who do ask questions or give WRONG answers to those questions are NOT informed and should not be flamed for it but merely given the correct info in a NICE WAY. None of this "Are FU$*#ng Kidding me..." stuff. remember, we all come to HT for knowledge and comraderie for and about Honda topics. If you can't say something in a nice way, SHUT ^!!!
We do have some little tid-bits about LS/b20-vtecs on our website. Please feel free to roam the How-tos and forums.
http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto.php
http://www.c-speedracing.com
Sorry for butting in to your guys little quarrel but reading this gave me a headache.</TD></TR></TABLE>
One could even question the "factual" information on your site.. Seems everyone goes there and then swears that CTR pistons are only ~11.7:1 in a B16 (or whatever your calculator used to say)... right now, the calculator doesn't work at all..
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Re: LS/Vtec....GSR or ITR rods (GreyDel)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
One could even question the "factual" information on your site.. Seems everyone goes there and then swears that CTR pistons are only ~11.7:1 in a B16 (or whatever your calculator used to say)... right now, the calculator doesn't work at all.. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Most individuals did not completely enter ALL perimeters to provide an accurate CR number. You have to provide ALL numbers on the entire page, all the way to the bottom. But, but your reply to my post I can tell that all you'd like to do is argue your point and I won't stand in your way. Seems to be working right now
Also, if you read the disclaimer at the top:
This calculator is intended for use as a general estimate of your compression only. Certain variables that cannot be accounted for may cause the actual compression ratio to vary - such as a head that has been milled. Please use your own descretion.
You would realize the it is an estimate; a very close estimate. When you come up with something better, let us know.
We are always trying to keep "Factual" info as best we know.
One could even question the "factual" information on your site.. Seems everyone goes there and then swears that CTR pistons are only ~11.7:1 in a B16 (or whatever your calculator used to say)... right now, the calculator doesn't work at all.. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Most individuals did not completely enter ALL perimeters to provide an accurate CR number. You have to provide ALL numbers on the entire page, all the way to the bottom. But, but your reply to my post I can tell that all you'd like to do is argue your point and I won't stand in your way. Seems to be working right now
Also, if you read the disclaimer at the top:
This calculator is intended for use as a general estimate of your compression only. Certain variables that cannot be accounted for may cause the actual compression ratio to vary - such as a head that has been milled. Please use your own descretion.
You would realize the it is an estimate; a very close estimate. When you come up with something better, let us know.
We are always trying to keep "Factual" info as best we know.
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From: In the garage
Re: LS/Vtec....GSR or ITR rods (C-speed Ricer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by C-speed Ricer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Most individuals did not completely enter ALL perimeters to provide an accurate CR number. You have to provide ALL numbers on the entire page, all the way to the bottom. But, but your reply to my post I can tell that all you'd like to do is argue your point and I won't stand in your way. Seems to be working right now
Also, if you read the disclaimer at the top:
This calculator is intended for use as a general estimate of your compression only. Certain variables that cannot be accounted for may cause the actual compression ratio to vary - such as a head that has been milled. Please use your own descretion.
You would realize the it is an estimate; a very close estimate. When you come up with something better, let us know. We are always trying to keep "Factual" info as best we know.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I didn't know it was my job to come up with something "better" everytime I found some false information on every website out there. Imagine how busy I would be if that was the case??
I wasn't trying to "argue" with you. I was simply pointing out. You came in and tried to hint that we couldn't argue since we didn't have "factual" references and then listed your website as an example of where one might find those references. My only point is that while you do run a good site with lots of helpfull information, its still not the gospel.
If I wanted to argue, I could point out much more. Lets see..
(edit)
nevermind. This isn't about the mistakes on your site. I'll leave those up to you to find, since you think all I want is to argue.
also, why would you leave a compression calculator open to such errors anyways? You KNOW that 99% of the people using don't know what the hell they are doing anyways. They go there, click some options and "duhh... its only 10.8:1 with CTR pistons in a B16 man"... before you know it, they are experts and can argue all day long. My ex buisness partner actually HAS already taken the time to improve on your calculator. For the time you have put into yours, its not that hard to do it correctly. Leaving it "as is" just gives people another source of false info to fuel thier fire..
Most individuals did not completely enter ALL perimeters to provide an accurate CR number. You have to provide ALL numbers on the entire page, all the way to the bottom. But, but your reply to my post I can tell that all you'd like to do is argue your point and I won't stand in your way. Seems to be working right now
Also, if you read the disclaimer at the top:
This calculator is intended for use as a general estimate of your compression only. Certain variables that cannot be accounted for may cause the actual compression ratio to vary - such as a head that has been milled. Please use your own descretion.
You would realize the it is an estimate; a very close estimate. When you come up with something better, let us know.
We are always trying to keep "Factual" info as best we know.</TD></TR></TABLE>I didn't know it was my job to come up with something "better" everytime I found some false information on every website out there. Imagine how busy I would be if that was the case??
I wasn't trying to "argue" with you. I was simply pointing out. You came in and tried to hint that we couldn't argue since we didn't have "factual" references and then listed your website as an example of where one might find those references. My only point is that while you do run a good site with lots of helpfull information, its still not the gospel.
If I wanted to argue, I could point out much more. Lets see..
(edit)
nevermind. This isn't about the mistakes on your site. I'll leave those up to you to find, since you think all I want is to argue.
also, why would you leave a compression calculator open to such errors anyways? You KNOW that 99% of the people using don't know what the hell they are doing anyways. They go there, click some options and "duhh... its only 10.8:1 with CTR pistons in a B16 man"... before you know it, they are experts and can argue all day long. My ex buisness partner actually HAS already taken the time to improve on your calculator. For the time you have put into yours, its not that hard to do it correctly. Leaving it "as is" just gives people another source of false info to fuel thier fire..