Hi Everyone,

I would greatly appreciate feedback on these 3 kits. I am working with a small budget, so the only way I can improve the performance of my brother's ITR is to buy a slightly used complete turbo kit that should bolt on with minor modifications so I can save on labor costs. Please advise on these 3 kits I've found for sale on ebay. And no they are not SS Autochrome kits!!!! I've searched on those already and know that it is not a great deal on a kit, so I decided to pick up a slightly used quality set instead.

Thanks in advance. Would appreciate as much feedback as possible both positive and negative.

Turbo Kit A with STR Manifold
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

Turbo Kit B Drag Kit
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

Turbo Kit C with A/R Garett
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

 

personally id get the drag kit. it seems the nicest of the 3. 1st kit has a delta-gate which you would want to change and the 3rd kit is a SS auto manifold. so kit #2 is what id get.

my 2 cents

 

i'd keep looking, drag manifold is teh suck.. none of them come with decent fuel managment, so you're waisting money on fmu and stuff, you don't know the condition of the turbo, fitment maybe an issue unless same exact year model - but that shouldn't be much of a problem

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerosearch

Don't even try to skimp out on fuel management for a stock internal ITR or you can kiss that motor goodbye

 

I would save your money up for a Full-Race kit

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98 Spec R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would save your money up for a Full-Race kit </TD></TR></TABLE>

http://www.full-race.com/catal...t.jpg

 

build your own

 

Did you say small budget and turbo in the same sentence?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bbasso &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you say small budget and turbo in the same sentence? </TD></TR></TABLE>

no kidding. small budget and racing doesnt go together let alone small budget and turbo.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stick-e-rice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am working with a small budget, so the only way I can improve the performance of my brother's ITR is to buy a slightly used complete turbo kit </TD></TR></TABLE>

Tell your brother to sell the car, get a Mustang and a blower.



Best of luck on this project. You need g00d fuel/ignition management and tuning. Don't be cheap on stuff. DIY will save you money, but hire a good tuner to run through your setup and tune it. Make sure you budget a turbo rebuild if you get a used one. Make sure it's T3 flanged, you don't want to **** with T25 flange crap (GReddy etc.)

-Chris

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ALL M0T0R CRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

no kidding. small budget and racing doesnt go together let alone small budget and turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>I couldn't stop laughing when I read this

 

why don't you just build your own kit, waaayyyy ******* cheaper, and if you do it right, the quality was wayyy better too :tu...

just a suggestion anyhow

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bbasso &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you say small budget and turbo in the same sentence? </TD></TR></TABLE>
i just put my kit together for 2200

 

any of the kits are fine, but order a kit without the manifold, and go with http://www.inlinepro.com stainless steel log manifold, it will be better in the long run(wont crack like the other crappy cast iron manifolds) also it will be better for dailydriven, i would go with full race too, if this car is not a daily

 

Thanks all for input. **Please don't read if you feel posts are long**. **I have only 5 posts a day to spend so I need to get the most out of it.** Refrain from negative comments or attacks, if you don't want to help; no one is forcing you to. For those of you that have a kind heart and remember once that you were a Noob too, I would appreciate input on a much more specific matter. Questions will be regarding "value." I know that more expensive brand name equipment are in most cases better than cheap no name products. Refrain from repeating this "matter" for constructive discussion only.

I am not skimping out on anything, but at the same time would like to spend money wisely. An easy example would be a used quality part vs. a new autosschrome part. I'm one of those people who haven't paid full price on anything personally for a while, so I will wait when a deal comes by to purchase parts. My brother is going to have his car lowered today with his set of new coils at Heeltoe Automotive here in Mission Viejo or SOCAL, and Marcus there quoted 3700 for a complete set installed including labor for a set. I'm having my brother retrieve an invoice from him to detail prices down to the bone, so I can shop for each one by one. I've been reading a lot on this forum, so I know what labor costs should be and I can surf around for sale parts or used parts when they become available. Financials as of now, I'm waiting to sell a slightly used set of Oettinger 19inch RZ rims with tires of 80% that has been refinished with no scratches or nicks. If u know anyone who has an Audi B5, B6, or B7 and is in SOCAL that are interested, I would greatly appreciate passing on this message. These wheels are posted on Fourtitude and Vortex. I've agreed to give the funds from these wheels when they are sold with what money he has saved up which adds to about 4K now. We will be leaving LA next month to come down to Denver at the end of August. Got one month to possibly get some mods at that budget or just keep acquiring parts until they are complete and have it installed in Denver.

I'm starting to understand that there are certain parts that you don't want to skimp on. From this thread alone, that would be the tuning off a Hondata (Uberdata, Chrome, Neptune), a manifold (STR, BBK, or JG maybe?), a wastegate (Tial preferred), and a good intercooler(quality is based on size and fins with no brand name here). I am looking for a setup to run on low boost on stock internals with room to improve in the future when more miles are put on the engine.

I apologize for the long posts, but I want to be specific and have all available information for you to help and discuss (greatly appreciated). I also already missed out on some parts because emails were hidden, and I couldn't post a message; ran out of max 5 day posts.

So I'll just ask what is puzzling me so far.

Which manifold has the most value (price vs. quality)?

A turbo kit out of a GSR, B16 is a setup that has the same piping as a Type R. True or False and if false by how much. Is it even worth getting a turbo kit that has been setup or used in a GSR,B16?

Is it worth shopping for a set that has all the piping off of a kit from a GSR or B16 and modify it if needed; or would it just be a better value (price vs. hassle vs. quality) to have custom piping done and absorb the labor costs there?

An appropriate Turbo. I know a T3/T4 is a label for a characteritic of a turbo. Is there a major difference in value between a Turbonetics T3/T4 or a Garrett T3/T4. I'm also considering a GT28rs turbo that Tony the Tiger has. I love his setup, but I don't think we can afford it because of labor costs, even in the future. Are there many different types of T3/T4 turbos? Im puzzled with terms like Trim and labels such as T3/T4 "o", "e", "r", or "a/r".

Out of the box kits like Drag, Rev Hard, FMAX worth it in value vs. a built your own setup? Are most of these out of the box kits expensive because its brand name and uses quality products, the custom piping for ease of installation, or simply a one solution stop for those who want a turbo but don't know how to put one together?

This is it for now, its getting long again. But I feel I need to be specific to make an informed decision. 4K is a lot of money and if I find out I didn't spend it correctly, I won't be able to sleep the next day. Thanks.

 

Go with a high quality ductile cast iron manifold for the street, unless you want to spend long dollars on a nice so called equal length manifold (most aren't equal)

I wouldn't waste time with a kit, if I had to do it all over again, I'd piece the turbo setup together rather than buying a kit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stick-e-rice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would appreciate as much feedback as possible both positive and negative.</TD></TR></TABLE>

then...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stick-e-rice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Refrain from negative comments or attacks,</TD></TR></TABLE>

So make up your mind

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stick-e-rice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My brother is going to have his car lowered today with his set of new coils at Heeltoe Automotive here in Mission Viejo or SOCAL, and Marcus there quoted 3700 for a complete set installed including labor for a set.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow. For a street/drag car, I'd suggest Omnipower coilovers for like $650, and install it yourself, and then get an alignment (or, DIY if you're creative enough). There's other coilovers, and better ones, but these do the job.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boondock Saint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Go with a high quality ductile cast iron manifold for the street, unless you want to spend long dollars on a nice so called equal length manifold (most aren't equal)

I wouldn't waste time with a kit, if I had to do it all over again, I'd piece the turbo setup together rather than buying a kit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree, you'd probably want to stay away from a turbo kit. I would, for sure, doing it a second time around.

For the mani: I almost ended up with the cast InlinePRO, but changed my mind and went with a Lovefab Mini-me. In terms of price/quality, it's great. In order to keep the full-size rad, I had to have it specially made. I have pretty low power goals (300-400 range) so maybe I would have just done the InlinePRO instead if I was doing it again. But, the Mini-Me is simple, quality, and makes good power. You can get a 3" downpipe for $299 and a thermal exhaust for $600 or something. Lovefab can make the downpipe to go the entire length to meet up exactly with the Thermal catback.

For ECU, yeah, tons of good options. I'd personally stay away from anything with the name "hack" in it, all the ones you mentioned are fine. Hondata, I think, has a new version out for the B series that makes it as good as the cheaper ones, but that's your call. Don't do GReddy emanage or blue box, or anything that keeps the stock ECU.

For GSR (etc.) kits, the one thing to look out for is the length of the intake pipe going to the throttle body, that'll be different. Also for Civic/B16, the pipes for hte intercooler might not be the same (not sure on this one).

My GReddy kit was for a GSR (or LS). All that's left of it is the intake pipes (changed manifold, turbo, downpipe) but they fit good.

Good luck with the turbo nomenclature. There's a standard flange/housing for the compressor and exhaust sides(T3, T4, T25). I think a T3/T4 means it has a T3 exhaust housing/flange, and T4 intake. T28 means T25 exhaust, T3 intake.

Take a look at Garret's catalog, it's pretty handy for a starter. http://www.turbobygarrett.com/....html
(look at various topics under "Turbo Tech", and under "Products-&gt;turbochargers"

Your power goals and price range will determine your turbo selection. I picked a GT2871R for its small size/quick spool, and ability to get up to 400 WHP if I need it. I started with a .86 A/R exhaust side, which spooled at a very late RPM (full boost just over 5000 RPM) but was very efficient. I have since moved to a .64 A/R exhaust side (cost $150 for the housing) and it makes full boost/14 PSI before 3000 RPM. It holds boost to redline, but it would be maxed out at 400 HP.

Happy boosting. You might want to ask more questions in F/I forum too.

 

Dear Chris F,

OMG, this has been the most helpful post so far I've gotten. Thank you so much. What you said confirmed a lot of what I had in mind and cleared up a lot on stuff I am confused on. Thank you so much for taking your personal time to help someone who you don't know like me. I know you didn't have to do it, and i greatly appreciate it. If you are in the Laguna Niguel area or in Denver, hit me up, I'd be willing to take care of you on an awesome meal and talk more about Hondas. My name is Ton and my brother's name is Hutch. My email is watcharatp@comcast.net and Hutch's email is Hutch249@hotmail.com.

Sounds like you have a cool setup. I called the turbo wrong, but the setup you have seems to be a setup that I'm looking for. The GT2871R, man these names are long. I thought it was called a GT28rs or something. I'll do more studying. You have a type R also so that is awesome. I'm going with everything you said so far. I just want a proven blueprint on something that works well for a Integra Type R. I will just have to take the time to put together a list of everything I need now and shop for them and just have it installed when it is complete.

I'm not looking for huge numbers because of stock internals, but in the future maybe when the engine needs a rebuild, I will possibly want more if the internals are upgraded and can handle more.

Hmmm. This is good. Thanks so much. Ill put together a list soon with a budget to start the shopping process.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stick-e-rice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not looking for huge numbers because of stock internals, but in the future maybe when the engine needs a rebuild, I will possibly want more if the internals are upgraded and can handle more.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The GT28RS (disco potato) may be too small for the Type R. GT2871R with the .64 A/R is totally awesome, I would look into that, even though it is $$$. You can get something similar, maybe without ball bearings, that would do the job without being as pricey. Disco Potato would be more at home on a D series or non-vtec B series.

I don't have a dyno chart with the new exhaust and housing, but it drives a lot like a bigger motor car, rather than a peaky turbo setup. The .86 A/R was tough, sometimes on the track I'd get out of boost, and out of VTEC, and it would suck having to wait for both to get moving.

Here's a dyno chart with the GT2871R, .86 A/R, on my 9:1 compression motor. GReddy manifold, GReddy 2" downpipe.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1223589
The torque falls off big-time, because my boost controller sucked and the wastegate spring wasn't strong enough, and the exhaust is also too small. You can see I don't really start making big torque until 5000 RPM.

My old dyno on a stock motor with the GReddy kit:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=987108

That reminds me, get a MANUAL boost controller, not electronic. Cheap, effective, simple. You can upgrade later if you want to, but man my Profec B Spec 2 was a piece of ****.

-Chris

 

If you are going with that not pay full price bullshit, its not going to happen.
Speaking from a guy with experience, if you try to go cheap, you'll pay more for the end, UNLESS you can do it yourself, which you obviously can't.
Pay a reasonable price for it new, and don't skimp out.

 

.....don't discount the greddy kit.

there is better out there - but it is decent for the $ if you can get a deal on it. For a street car, it is excellent..... after all, Chris F, myself, and others have started with this kit. For 12-14psi or less, it is good.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.....don't discount the greddy kit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

For a street car, I agree with Ken. It is awesome. It's even great for a track *****, until you burn out the bearings on the turbo. Plenty of fun, enough power to blow your motor, spools pretty quick, etc. Needs engine management, and MAYBE an external wastegate, depending on who you ask. Also an intercooler is nice.

It's a pain to upgrade, because it has an odd Nissan T25 flange. you can get a Nissan T25 flanged GT2871R, though, and it'll bolt up.

The GT2871R is better though. Just keep an eye on your budget.

-Chris

 

Hey guys thanks for all the input, especially Black R and Chris and also the others. I really don't want to keep changing minds, but everyone seems to have a different opinion on a turbo kit.

Today I just dropped by Racing Trenz to have them install a set of foglights that I have just gotten back from repair. Ben the owner, is a guy who I've known for a while here, and started his tuning shop called Racing Trenz here locally in Denver. They are by far the largest tuner and installer here in Denver with the biggest shop and the most business as far as JDM car goes.

While I was waiting for the foglamps to be installed, I had time to sit and talk with him on turboing my brother's type R. He recommended the Greddy kit and didn't recommend going beyond 5psi.

His reasonin was that Denver, is one mile above sea level, and he went on to explain something about oxygen and CFM that of course made me lost. He however told me that almost every Type R that had a turbo installed here in Denver blew the motor up. He went to further explained that part of the problem is the altitude here, but also the driver. The safest kids of course are the greddy kits, which even that he had a customer blow one up after continuous flooring up to speeds exceeding 120mph. I wouldn't blame that on the kit, but more the driver because of the extra amount of stress on the engine when running on 5th gear with boost for a long time. But we all know when you are racing someone, there is not much of a limit we set on ourselves, unless we totally get blown away or vice versa.

I also just got off the phone with Marcus here from Heeltoe Automotive in SOCAL and I have to say this guy is great to deal with. He told me he will work with me on the price to make the setup a good one if we decide to proceed. He however, recommended a GT30R ball bearing turbo instead and is going to send me a breakdown on price with installation here within the next day. I'll keep you guys updated. Because of the nature of Denver being one mile above sea level, he recommended me take it to a shop that was an authorized Hondata tuner and reseller. Found two here in Colorado, Club RSX and TC's Performance Inc. Anyone know anything of these guys.

Tuning seems to be the key and of course the driver. If anyone has anything to say about these two shops, please let me know because if I called and asked them if they were any good, I'm sure they wouldn't say they are not. Marcus accepted he couldn't perfectly tune the car because he is in CA, but could do something that was fairly good.

Debate is open about the GT30R turbos vs. other turbos on a Type R only.

Debate is open about altitude being a factor on turbocharging.

Thanks again for a constructive response and mostly your time.

 

My kit might work for you. It's made for the ls, but the piping should be the same. It's brand new so you could save yourself a bunch of headaches. Drag kit for 2200. check my sig for pics