Raz Cams Stage I dyno
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From: atlanta, ga, USA
Raz Cams Stage I dyno
Last weekend I did a test install of the upcoming stage I cams for the k20a3/k24a3 motors.
Well, one of the surprises of last weekend was the unanticipated early arrival of the stage1/FI spec cams. I was expecting the cam grinder to send a 2nd set of the stage 2 N/A cams that I had installed in my own car. Much to my dismay, when I opened the boxes, I began to realize that the cams were the stage 1 cams. Jeff (test car owner) was upset for all of 10 minutes thinking he was going to go home empty handed yet again - but to his credit, he settled down and was very cool about the whole situation. We had already finished the valvespring upgrade, so the stock cams were already out. I told him he could either go home with the stock cams, or run the stage 1 cams. He chose to try the stage 1's. The stage one cams are less agressive to provide a nicer idle for those who value comfort. They were also intended to make power well beyond stock redline. The spec is also favorable for turbo setups as it is a low overlap cam spec which will allow quick spool at low rpm while really opening up the top end.
At any rate, on Jeff's car, the cams made 15+ additional peak whp and 6+ ft-lb additional peak torque. This is in mid-tune state, without the use of VTC. the VTC will really benefit the low rpm, however even without the use of VTC the stage 1's outperform stock cams from just prior to 4000rpm on up. The big dip @ 5000-5500rpm is due to ignition settings. The base intake manifold is a totally different beast to tune than the aluminum manifolds. However, this dyno shows that it's quite possible to make good gains above the stock redline. Power actually held on longer than I was expecting, not falling off until after 7500rpm. Anyhow, these results are preliminary, the tune is streetable, very little knock occuring, a/f is cleaned up. All that remains is to tune ignition (and cam angles when a VTC fix is devised).
Jeff's setup for those who don't know:
injen CAI, JRRH + high flow catalytic, catback (not sure of brand), k-pro, Raz stage I camshafts, Raz reccomended valvetrain upgrades.
As you can see, this graph is a lot smoother, much better tuned than the stage 2 map I put up awhile ago. Tuning makes all the difference.
I can't wait to see what they will do for a boosted motor - but from the looks of the n/a dyno, the boosted gains will be VERY generous. The stage 1's require the same valvetrain upgrades as the stage 2's. I'm working on a fix for the VTC situation, but at this point, it's not safe to turn on VTC due to issues with Hondata k-pro/k100.
In summary:
Stage 1 = moderate n/a, turbo, supercharged applications
Stage 2 = agressive n/a applications.
Modified by chunky at 6:03 PM 7/28/2005
Well, one of the surprises of last weekend was the unanticipated early arrival of the stage1/FI spec cams. I was expecting the cam grinder to send a 2nd set of the stage 2 N/A cams that I had installed in my own car. Much to my dismay, when I opened the boxes, I began to realize that the cams were the stage 1 cams. Jeff (test car owner) was upset for all of 10 minutes thinking he was going to go home empty handed yet again - but to his credit, he settled down and was very cool about the whole situation. We had already finished the valvespring upgrade, so the stock cams were already out. I told him he could either go home with the stock cams, or run the stage 1 cams. He chose to try the stage 1's. The stage one cams are less agressive to provide a nicer idle for those who value comfort. They were also intended to make power well beyond stock redline. The spec is also favorable for turbo setups as it is a low overlap cam spec which will allow quick spool at low rpm while really opening up the top end.
At any rate, on Jeff's car, the cams made 15+ additional peak whp and 6+ ft-lb additional peak torque. This is in mid-tune state, without the use of VTC. the VTC will really benefit the low rpm, however even without the use of VTC the stage 1's outperform stock cams from just prior to 4000rpm on up. The big dip @ 5000-5500rpm is due to ignition settings. The base intake manifold is a totally different beast to tune than the aluminum manifolds. However, this dyno shows that it's quite possible to make good gains above the stock redline. Power actually held on longer than I was expecting, not falling off until after 7500rpm. Anyhow, these results are preliminary, the tune is streetable, very little knock occuring, a/f is cleaned up. All that remains is to tune ignition (and cam angles when a VTC fix is devised).
Jeff's setup for those who don't know:
injen CAI, JRRH + high flow catalytic, catback (not sure of brand), k-pro, Raz stage I camshafts, Raz reccomended valvetrain upgrades.
As you can see, this graph is a lot smoother, much better tuned than the stage 2 map I put up awhile ago. Tuning makes all the difference.
I can't wait to see what they will do for a boosted motor - but from the looks of the n/a dyno, the boosted gains will be VERY generous. The stage 1's require the same valvetrain upgrades as the stage 2's. I'm working on a fix for the VTC situation, but at this point, it's not safe to turn on VTC due to issues with Hondata k-pro/k100.
In summary:
Stage 1 = moderate n/a, turbo, supercharged applications
Stage 2 = agressive n/a applications.
Modified by chunky at 6:03 PM 7/28/2005
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From: atlanta, ga, USA
Re: (jimmyjames)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jimmyjames »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Was this at extremely high altitudes? I find it hard to believe that his stock engine with K-Pro, CAI and JRRH made only 144WHP. That should have been nearly 160WHP.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It was a base RSX which doesn't make as much peak as the civic si k20a3. Also, it was in Nashville, which is a good ways above sea level. The gains are what I'm trying to reflect here, not the peak #'s
It was a base RSX which doesn't make as much peak as the civic si k20a3. Also, it was in Nashville, which is a good ways above sea level. The gains are what I'm trying to reflect here, not the peak #'s
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From: Lake Forest, Ca
Re: (jimmyjames)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jimmyjames »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Was this at extremely high altitudes? I find it hard to believe that his stock engine with K-Pro, CAI and JRRH made only 144WHP. That should have been nearly 160WHP.</TD></TR></TABLE>
also the test motor had about 114k on it.
also the test motor had about 114k on it.
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Re: (chunky)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chunky »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It was a base RSX which doesn't make as much peak as the civic si k20a3. Also, it was in Nashville, which is a good ways above sea level. The gains are what I'm trying to reflect here, not the peak #'s</TD></TR></TABLE>
I ask because it had a K-Pro. The before numbers could have been artificially low because of poor tuning. Nashville is about 500ft above sea level.
If it was tuned well previously, then the cams look good. They should look even better once you figure out the VTEC.
It was a base RSX which doesn't make as much peak as the civic si k20a3. Also, it was in Nashville, which is a good ways above sea level. The gains are what I'm trying to reflect here, not the peak #'s</TD></TR></TABLE>
I ask because it had a K-Pro. The before numbers could have been artificially low because of poor tuning. Nashville is about 500ft above sea level.
If it was tuned well previously, then the cams look good. They should look even better once you figure out the VTEC.
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