Please let me know what went well and what did not.

Please either e-mail me directly jrpoliti@erols.com or post here. Your input is necessary for our continued improvement.

Grumpy

 

Email Sent. For everyone else, here is what it said:


Jim,
Overall another great event. There are some things that I think should be addressed in the future however. They are as follows:

Lunch and free time - This was a very sore point for me on Saturday. The way the Comp School was scheduled I had no time to eat. I also had no time to unwind after getting out of the car. We were let out of class a few minutes prior to track time. There was simply not enough time to get dressed, strapped in and gridded without rushing. This is not good IMO. We should be as calm as possible when we hit the track and the rushing didn't help this. We were then required to be back in the classroom as soon as we got off track. Give us some time to wind down after a session. We also need to eat lunch. There was no time to do it on Saturday. I know the Sups said to eat on our own time but we had none of our own time because of the scheduling.

My impressions of the Comp School:
I found it very useful. I do however think that less time should be spent in the classroom and more on track going over the exercises/drills. The one thing I found more beneficial than anything else was the side-by-side exercises. I think the comfort of being next to someone and only driving one side of the track is key and these exercises helped greatly. I suggest more of them. Another suggestion would be to make the class something that can be built upon. If I were to take another comp school I would hear the exact same things and do the exact same things. I don't need to hear the stuff again (especially since I can go and re-read Drive To Win and Prepare To Win and get the same info) and I can practice most of the exercises in the Advanced Group. Is this bad? Not at all. The info was very relevant and fit effectively but I still think track time is the most important aspect. As I said, I can read Carroll Smith books and get the same info. What I can't get from Carroll Smith is the on-track experience and hands on lessons.



[Modified by Cobra, 11:34 AM 2/19/2002]

 

Possibly, NASA should require a crew like the SCCA comp schools (to grid and prep car while student is in class). Changed? Just leave your suit on and your gear in the car - that's what we had to do at the SCCA comp school.

No time for lunch is definetely bad though. No food makes me irritable. And hydration is important.

 

Cobra,

Noted.

Will address scheduling and lunch time for Competition School.

Will pass school comments to Chief Instructor.

Thanks.

Grumpy

 

I echo Drew's comments about prep time for the sessions. I will also add that I think over an hour and a half of classroom for what should be advanced students seems excessive. A lot of it turned out to be war stories which can be traded in the paddock or heard over a beer at night.

I was disappointed by the loss of the first session, and the restraints placed on us during the 2nd session. Some students were going maybe 2/10th's or so, and other students were going 5/10th's. Inevitably, pairs would catch up to each other, and then it became a big mess since no one was allowed to pass another pair. You've got cars executing what should be controlled "dive bombs", but instead are accelerating during the pass in the braking zone. I believe that creates a false sense of security which can cause trouble when it comes time to cut students loose. We should find a way to push the students. It really means very little to execute an inside pass while you are going down the straight at 20 mph...

Also, you should post who received their comp licenses. It would be good to know who you may see on the track.

And I know you don't want to hear this, but this is the truth. I learned more at the SCCA comp school at the Glen than I did at this event. Tons of track time, and we worked our way up to race conditions. However, I will add that the NASA comp school / observation at the Jefferson Circuit last year was on par. I think this was partly due to my friend Payton who pushed me pretty good, and the large amount of track time. It was also good having Chris Cobetto ride in the car and have me do a few things that I had not known about in advance, so he could observe what I was doing, and how I behaved.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that honestly, I do not know that folks that graduate from the current NASA comp school are any more or less safe than those that come from SCCA schools.

Warren, who's currently wondering where his nomex suit is.

 

Crack Monkey,

Having a crew is a good point.

Noted and will discuss with Chief Instructor.

Thanks, Grumpy

 

Warren,

Thank you for your comments.

They will be address with the Chief Instructor.

As far as who passed the observation phase, once we weed through the observation reports, we will probably post it on the NASA-VA page.

Grumpy





[Modified by Grumpy, 5:17 PM 2/19/2002]

 

Good event
Saturday night was nice.

-Sitting on grid for ~15-20 min. Sat. morning was a bit....
I guess the workers took a while to get on station. I can sympathize... but that much delay can't be absorbed by each session thru the day.

Will
-who had fun... and got 9 mpg

 

Complaint:
1) Didn't get signed off after my last session, because I think my instructor just forgot. Didn't have any excursions So I left the track confused on what I paid my money for.
2) We also didn't get our log books until the end of the day on Sunday.
3) Turn on some lights for tech on Friday and Saturday night. I was going 5mph through the paddock and almost ran into a spec racer who didn't have lights (why would he?) on his car.
4) Universal class maybe Saturday morning for instructors. Some instructors weren't clear on passing rules and people were passing on the lefts and rights. I even witnessed an instructor driving a student car passing 5 people on the back straight and 1-2 cars in the braking zone. That would have scared the hell out of me if I was that person being passed. My instructor didn't know all the rules either.

Praise:
1) All the workers who put in all their time for the event.
2) Great announcing by I forget who was it
3) Everyone was really friendly and approachable.

Criticism:
1) More time between things. It seemed like both days if one classroom was 5 minutes and next one was also running late it turned into 30 minutes later for classroom 3. Like a domino effect.
2) The one time our classroom instructor was asking when we were supposed to be out on track and then we heard the announcement on the loud speaker, and he was like "Class dismissed!!! Get in your cars"

 

A written schedule and student cards would be great! I missed one of my students first sessions(thanks Chris for bailing me out) Come to find out, my intermediate student was told he was novice. The tight sched sucked; no time to grab lunch after debriefing students. Otherwise fantabulous!!

 

You paid your money for instruction. Do you feel you learned everything you could have from your instructor? Is the only reason you came to go solo? If so then perhaps you should stick with autocrossing because I personally don't want to be on track with someone who's only goal is to be signed off.

Also - if you weren't signed off after your last session there was no point. The sign-off does not carry over to the next event. All the sign-off allows you to do is run solo for the remainder of the weekend. If you weren't signed off before your last session then chances are there was a reason. Simply "not going off" is not enough reason to sign someone off.

Cobra - Who often takes an instructor even after being signed off because he can always learn more from them


[Modified by Cobra, 1:39 PM 2/19/2002]

 

Getting workers out late was resolved by Sunday. Should not happen again.

Grumpy

 

I agree with that. Overall, I give the event two thumbs up

It would have been nice to have a "scheduled lunch time" on Saturday, but no biggie...

Jason- who was offered a "solo status" after the first Sunday session, but was learning TOO much to accept it

 

Getting signed off as a novice or intermediate is just for remainder of day to practice skills learned so far.

Log book snafu... let's blame first event of season. Won't happen again.

Lights are under control of track. NASA has no say in track lighting.

We did have a lot of NEW TO NASA but qualified instructors this event. We have instructor clinics throughout the season to train instructors the NASA philosophy.

In order to keep costs down we have to utilize every minute of available track time. This is one of my biggest challenges.

Do delays cause domino effect? ABSOLUTELY. But again, we try to have a tight schedule to keep the costs down. We had a big problem with rented radios that cost us some time. We also had to recover some school cars, which we did not have to do last year, this caused us to loose more time. The more "offs" the more the schedule gets hit.

Good comments. Thanks,

Grumpy

 

Thanks! I had a good time as announcer.. I know that sounds wierd... but of course I had the best seat in the house


[Modified by Solracer, 6:57 PM 2/19/2002]

 

Enjoyed my first NASA event which was my 3rd event overall - wow you guys pack alot into a single weekend. First rate instructors (kudos to David Rhodes ), first rate corner workers - And a big to Ron Spencer for yet more excellent Classroom time.

I agree with previous comments about making sure everyone is on same page with regards to rules - the 'talk' on Sunday morning made some difference. It appeared some students were more concerned with trying to pass - Including one car who would weave back and forth behind you until he would, on several occasions, pass without a signal. To make matters worse, traffic was normally built up in front of you so there really wasn't anywhere for him to go. This sort of behavior is inexcusable in an educational environment and only detracts from the enjoyment. To add to this, higher horsepower cars need to be aware they may not be faster in the turns, even if they are faster in the straights. This created alot of the traffic which was out there, which is completely normal and understandable since everyone is on different skill levels, but please give a passing signal to those behind you so they can explore their limits.

Looking forward to more events with NASA - one request, can we add Time Trial events to any of the weekends?

 

Geez man. If you are driving the Miata that I am thinking of, you dusted me on the back straight. (where'd WHO go???--Intermediate group, black with a roll bar) I had a good run out of Oak Tree, too. You weren't gathering any flies on the straights or the turns as far as I could tell.

 

Ok maybe I should have reworded that. I did get ALOT out of this weekend. But we were told after our last classroom session, which was around 5pm, we should be signed off by now. Our thinking that being signed off was graduating to the next level - not to be able to drive solo. And this is what I mean....

I didn't mean to offend anyone - this was an open forum for complaints and criticism wasn't it? No need to get nasty.

It was a great weekend for my first event. Would I do it again? Yes/No. But I don't know since the drive just about killed me - I'm not one for long drives. Maybe Summit Point would be better.


[Modified by CivicSiRacer, 2:46 PM 2/19/2002]

 

Hey - I would love to say that was me, but I was in Novice since it was my first NASA event.

 

You were a great announcer cause:
1) you spoke softly
2) you spoke clearly
3) and you repeated things incase it was missed the first time (which I really liked). Cause you could be talking to someone and miss the first part.

 

Positive:
1. All the usual NASA touches. The party afterwards was cool. The ability to watch the race groups was cool. Elyse did a good job as always on the instructor pairings - I had two Integras. Who would have thought
2. The flagging was excellent - which is something I've come to expect.
3. I noticed the "arm in" signs (and similar stuff) at the tower. that's a really neat idea.
4. The ECHC exhibition group 0wNd j00!

Needed improvement:
1. Needed printed schedules readily available. I've helped put on events before and I know how many little gotchas can keep this from happening.
2. The aforementioned clarity on sides for passing. My guys didn't have any problems but others seemed to.
3. Find the instructors who bailed on Saturday without telling anyone and give them a beatdown
4. It was too cold on Sunday
5. That's it. NASA puts on a darn fine track weekend. These things can, and will, happen at any track event.

Suggestions:
1. We instructor types need to be more diligent about the student logbooks. Not many students had them.
2. If we're gonna pack that much into one day, we need some relief for the classroom instructor. I felt bad for Ron - he spent the whole weekend in class and maybe got out to the track once.
3. The aforementioned lunch time. Actually if I wasn't doing ECHC stuff on Sunday, quiet hours are the perfect time for this, so that's my fault.
4. If drivers are misbehaving...have the cornerworkers black flag them. Passing under yellow in the instructor group..."bobbing and weaving" in novice group...that stuff should be dealt with swiftly. If not by the instructor (who is of course our first line of defense against over-aggressive driving) then the black needs to come out.

 

Yes I too had the same person weaving behind me on the 1st session on Sunday. Hello?! This was some of our first times on the track.

I met Ron Spencer Friday night getting teched and he is one great person to talk to. And I had no idea he was going to be our classroom instructor. Perfect person for the job.

And much thanks to Grumpy who lives up to his name But he does get things going and on the ball

 

This is an open forum. Please say whatever you want.

Moving up to the next group does not take place usually at the end of the day. You might not be ready then, and have a couple of other HPDEs or other experience before your next NASA event. Add that experience to your racing "resume" and it is all considered for the next time you register.

Typically you don't movre out of novice with just one event.

Grumpy

 

The thing is that their is no "graduation to the next level". If you "graduated" after one event that would mean that after 4 events you would be ready to road race. Realistically a person should spend several events in each group. I can say from experience that someone with 1 event in Beginner is more than likely not ready for Intermediate. I personally have run 3 events in intermediate and 1 Competition School. Although I am registered for Advanced at SpeedTrial I am taking an instructor and I am borderline in terms of being ready. The Comp School went a long way in preparing me for the jump. Without the Comp School I would have stayed in Intermediate.

The bottom line is that this isn't a race to see what group you end up in. This is about learning. Until you have learned everything you can from a group there is no reason to move up. I do advocate spending as little time as possible in Beginner simply because those drivers as a whole are much slower and don't watch their mirrors as much as they should. Once in Intermediate however you will be able to gain positive results for quite a while. The jump to Advanced brings no instructor unless requested (usually), passing anywhere with a signal, extremely fast drivers and drivers who will not hesitate to crawl into your trunk if you don't give them a passing signal. Unless you are an exceptional individual you will not be able to concentrate in this enviornment. A break in concentration can be catastrophic on track.

If this is your thought then you are definately not ready to move up. If that car weaving behind you is causing issues then you need to stay where you are. This is not a slam but a fact. That weaving will only get worse as you get into higher groups.


[Modified by Cobra, 3:04 PM 2/19/2002]

 

[Modified by Lees Z, 7:03 PM 2/19/2002]