which engine would be better to put into a civic? i dont have a lot of money so im probably gonna go all motor and no turbo so which one is easier to find parts for, get better horse and torque, and for the price of B16A2 @ $2450 vs. GSR @ $3050, which one is better? any ideas? keep in mind that i get the tranny, ecu , and everything else needed with either engine



Modified by stewmasterk at 9:39 PM 7/26/2005

 

I will say B18c1......

 

If you have the money to buy the gsr then get that but if your tight on the cash then get the b16a2. But it seems to me that all motor is more then turbo because you can just slap a turbo on and have decent numbers with mild extras to support a little higher boost. I dont know much about all motor but it seems expensive not sure though my .02

 

If you're debating between the two, save your money for the b18c. 1.8 > 1.6, plus you must take into account the cost of parts for the swap. But whatever choice you go with you'll never be 100% satisfied. I saved and bought a gsr for my hatch and after a month i was thinking i should've saved more for the R motor. If your like most the people on here and dont bring home big pay checks, smartest thing would be to get the b16 and spend your money elsewhere. That motor is just as entertaining and fun to drive. i lost over 3000$ when my gsr motor decided to drop a valve and destroy everything. Hope this helps.

 

I'd say go with the b16a, you'll have just as much fun with that.

 

I'm going to have to reccomend that you go with a b18c1 or c5 over the b16a2, point being that the b16 doesnt exactly make alot of power and i just dont see it being worth while for the price to swap it in, unless you had intentions of putting a stroker kit on it and all. Its just all around easier to make power on the b18c1, and i think you'll appreciate that extra .2 liters! good luck on the decision

 

i feel your pain, im still debating too!!!, i just want to get 200whp all motor, for my highschool years, then seriously build it after highschool for 250

 

250 whp that is, and i dont care how much it costs

 

go with the gsr since your goin n/a deffinatly

 

im still debating on what to get for my eg ******, i was really thinking the b16a2, i work at a honda dealership and parts are way cheaper for b16. but now i think im goin to go with the h22a for mine, even though are a tad bit more expensive. 200 hp stock, the swap is the same price for a b16 and h22,

 

Don't care how much it costs? Go k series and you'll easily attain 250whp.

 

maybe fly, but with that engine stock (h22), your prolly making around 165ish

 

ya im still in high school and i wanna do the same thing and thanks for all the help from everyone u guys gave me alot to think about

 

my swap cost about 300 bux more with parts and tuning than your planned GSR and would walk all over it, make sure you get the LSD trans and good tires. from my other post. BTW this setup in a 2200 pound 4 door eg with a good suspension and tires and today I whooped all over the night managers 05 SRT and he's a good driver.

This is a very basic setup.

b16a2 Password gasket, ITR IM, ported b18a1 tb to 62mm straight no taper by max bore, ITR AEM CAI, DC sports JDM 4-1 stainless 2.5in exhaust, all the coolant bypasses done.



Tuned by Church Auto with a hondata s100 on 91 octane Shell. The first run only goes to 7200 which is peak power for stock, for the rest of the runs I asked it to be tuned to fuel cutoff 8500 since on Toyo RA-1'a in a 2200 pound car on most tracks I can easily hit 130ish. Despite what the chart says about flywheel hp standard loss on a dynapak is around 11% for a b16. Vtec was moved down to 5100 from 5700 and a nice safety margin was left so this is'nt max power at the cost of reliability.

 

what are your plans for the car? you dont have to rule out the d-series just yet. if you are cost-concious(the nicest way to say broke/cheap) you could build a turbo d16 that would smoke a (stock)b16/b18 swapped civic for less. OF COURSE if you plan on modifying the b16/b18, or making serious power then the d has its limits... but 9 sec d series do exist!

if you are set on the b-series, i would recommend the b16. the tranny is geared closer than the gsr, and the intake mani design is better. to supplement the lack of torque, get a spare LS/b20 shortblock and build it up right. this was my plan until i decided to go sohc for financial reasons and just to be different.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racerpat94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what are your plans for the car? you dont have to rule out the d-series just yet. if you are cost-concious(the nicest way to say broke/cheap) you could build a turbo d16 that would smoke a (stock)b16/b18 swapped civic for less. OF COURSE if you plan on modifying the b16/b18, or making serious power then the d has its limits... but 9 sec d series do exist!

if you are set on the b-series, i would recommend the b16. the tranny is geared closer than the gsr, and the intake mani design is better. to supplement the lack of torque, get a spare LS/b20 shortblock and build it up right. this was my plan until i decided to go sohc for financial reasons and just to be different.</TD></TR></TABLE>

SOHC gearing is **** compared to b series vtec's it's hard to find an LSD trans and when you do add 400 bux and home made turbo kits are basically junk that produce higher peak numbers at the cost of real speed. The cost of which is another 1500 bux tuned which then brings the price to what you could sell your motor and with the difference buy a b16 swap instead of boosting an old motor.

As far as b20 franken junk motors are concerned there was one with a b16 head on a b20 block same mods as mine but from cheap *** little ebay companies and it made only 9hp and 12lbft of tq more than mine despite costing 1300 more total. So the parts combo is crucial.

If you can afford it get a gsr with a junk2 aebs ect IM and tune similar you'll make enough that you'll be happy on good tires.

 

I would say pick up a B18B or B1 for like 1500 for the swap... and then you can put together a turbo kit for 1500 and then you'd be pretty damn happy I bet.. and all for about the same money as the c1 swap. It's up to you though..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by young noob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i feel your pain, im still debating too!!!, i just want to get 200whp all motor, for my highschool years, then seriously build it after highschool for 250</TD></TR></TABLE>

200whp all motor your going to be spending a nice amount of money. Even with a gsr, ur not gonna be looking at 200whp without atleast headwork & cams. Then your going to want to go with a header like Hytech or SMSP, which runs around a grand itself. Just letting you know what your in for if your looking to reach the 200whp plataeu NA.

 

Since $$$ is a concern I would go with the B16. Remember, a GSR(US) motor only makes 10hp more @ the flywheel, parts for a B16 are cheaper and easier to find, the intake manifold is designed better on the B16(almost identical to Type R manifold), and the tranny for a B16 has closer gear ratios.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbosiboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Since $$$ is a concern I would go with the B16. Remember, a GSR(US) motor only makes 10hp more @ the flywheel </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats true, but the b18c1 also makes about 20-30 more ft/lb of torque. Which makes a nice difference. I'd say for the price difference, go with the gsr, save up a lil more if you have to. Cuz chances are once you get the b16 in, your going to spend the difference between the motors putting bolts ons etc... on your b16 to make more power.

 

I thought it was closer to 10-15ft/lbs, I have a SIRII and would say go JDM GSR

 

1.8&gt;1.6 and u could always put a B16 tranny on the GSR motor too but if your lookin to make some serious HP im saying go with the GSR motor, Goodluck

 

I hate these posts.

Just flip a coin, they are both essentially the same. Only people who have never driven a car with a real engine think 10 ft lbs of torque makes a huge difference.

Look at it this way....if you are going to leave it stock or only put on bolt ons, the GSR won't be much faster.

If you are going to build it anyway, then get the b16 for sure because you get a better tranny and better head, and spending an extra $500 for a 1.8 longblock down the road isn't very pricey....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JMod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

200whp all motor your going to be spending a nice amount of money. Even with a gsr, ur not gonna be looking at 200whp without atleast headwork & cams. Then your going to want to go with a header like Hytech or SMSP, which runs around a grand itself. Just letting you know what your in for if your looking to reach the 200whp plataeu NA.</TD></TR></TABLE>

no no no, who says i need headwork, cams..........yes, but i bet i could get away with 200hp

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by young noob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

no no no, who says i need headwork, cams..........yes, but i bet i could get away with 200hp</TD></TR></TABLE>

the other poster is talking whp which on most dyno's equates to about 230 hp to the flywheel

My motor is rated at 170 hp stock being a jdm b16, 27 more hp means I'm making 200 to the flywheel. Given however that my stock peak was 143 which is more like 160 probably due to my engine being 12 years old and probably needing a valve adjustment and a new fuel filter it still means I'm making 190hp to the flywheel an easy fix would be those 2 the AEBS IM and a AN-R header the number would jump another 20 with tuning as on run where we actually hit the fuel cutoff at 8550 the motor made another 3 hp and was still climbing towards 9K where of course bad things happen on the stock valvetrain