i have a mild kit on the car it only makes about 260whp 175tq .i do some PDA events when i can, iam a mustang racer for many years know but my gsr is damn fun to drive its alittle pushy but fun

 

spooky, i was just talkin with someone over the honda-tech messenger about runnin a turbo honda at the track, and "not gonna happen" kinda summed it up

Brian

 

Can someone please elaborate on this? Why no Fi in auto-X? Do people run supercharged hondas at auto-x events?

 

Road racin' is quite a bit more demanding on an engine than is autox (was he autox?). Something about how long that the motor is run at high loads. A typical HPDE session is 20-30 minutes, whereas an autox run is anywhere from 20 seconds to 1:30 (maybe more).

 

So spooling hard will burn up the motor in road racing? Dose that mean most FI applications are mostly drag oriented?

 

I will be road racing my Civic Cx, I'll let you guys know if I run into any problems. Keeping the car as cool as possible is the key.

 

That's what I was thinking... What's under the hood of the CX?

 

"only"
LOL!

 

now... by "roadracing" does he mean actual competition events, or DE events?

 

By road racing, I mean just driving hard (and twisty) for say 10-30min at a time. I don't know anything about the different classes of competition. I guess I am just beating around the bush trying to ask what's the best application for real world (not just 1/4 mile) all around driving.

I know turbos can produce way more top end power than a supercharger, but is that useless in the twisties? And from what I am gathering in this post, turbos (or at least turboed motors) don't like to be constantly spooled for a 30min drive up your local mountains.

Bottom line is I want to build my car to be a sports car, not a muscle car. If I wanted a muscle car, I would have bought a Mustang. So what kind of build best complements good handling and all around "sports car drivability" if you will. I would imagine a solid n/a set up is the way to go, but quite expensive. You can find people dumping their JR SC's for cheap in search of more top end (especially on this board!)

I'm not trying to dig up the SC/turbo debate, I just want to hear input from people who actually put time in on the twisties.
Thanks!

 

"mild kit"?...."only 260"?.... My guess is that you pushing over 12 psi. Running a basically stock motor at full song for 30 minutes with 12+ psi of boost, is a time bomb waiting to go. Sounds like a fast car though, be careful.

My $.02


[Modified by johng, 3:45 PM 2/20/2002]

 

Hondas are N/A cars.
If you want a turbo get a DSM or Supra.

 

A real Honda sports car is all-motor.

 

a car i forgot about is the Top Fuel CTR, its turbo, putting down about 350whp and is used just on road courses. I'll watch my FF Special Option 2 video and see if there was any insightful info on it too, there were also a few other turbo b series powered Hondas that were just track cars. Maybe there are some answers in the video. I do remember the translation of one test drive from the video, driving the Esprit Civic... "Scary speed!"

Brian

 

LOL, that video is great. I remember that "scary speed" part :D

 

It can be done, but not by just a bolt on kit. first you need a built motor with stronger internals, A standalone computer to give pinpoint tuning( fuel and spark), its the key to reliability. bigger and better cooling system, radiator and oil cooler, To run it safe on the track. But In order to run it fast, You need a lot of time and money to test out different suspension parts and settings. eg. spring rates, camber, toe, brakes.....etc. It can be done but it wont be cheap. here is some prove, turbo charged ek9 running 59.330 sec in Tsukuba 7th overall, faster than a lot of crazy modded GTRs and other big boys.

 

I think the biggest issue will be power through the twisties. Unless the power rush is buttery smooth and easily modulated, when that thing spools, you'll have a serious issue putting the power down while steering...unless you have a LSD. At just 195hp, the ITR needs one. You do too!

On the straights, you'd be a phuqen rocket! You'll want to make sure your brakes are upgraded to deal w/the boost. You'll want bigger rotors/pads than the GS-R has stock. At just 195hp, the ITR needs em! You do too!

I know little about turbos, but if you can dial back the boost - like, way back, I'd do that my first time out. That'll give you room to learn w/o getting in too much trouble. As you get comfy, you can dial it up. Is that possible? Can you adjust the wastegate to spew at 5psi?

 

My friend is bringing his JRSC GSR to VIR this weekend, he is running 9psi, we'll see what it does!

 

I've been thinking about this for awhile now. And I think that if you were to do these things you might stand a chance of not grenading your motor:

-Forged Internals: To better resist detonation
-Standalone: To control the larger injectors that you *must* run
-Larger Radiator: Fluidyne, Koyo, whatever, with less coolant, more water and water wetter. Most of these are 30% larger, which is nice.
-2 slimline HO fans: These usually push out 2500cfm IIRC, which is a lot more than stock
-Low temp thermostat: So the fans kick on earlier
-Hardwired cooling fans: Wire the rad cooling fan (not the condensor) to stay on constantly while you are running hard
-Water Injection: Cools the intake charge, most standalone's have a provision for this
-Shimming the hood: Shim the rear of the hood up to allow for better cooling

Whew, that was a lot.
This is basically what I plan on doing, 7-10psi on a b18c1, for lapping days.

Tom

 

Having just run my supercharged B18C1 in my Civic CX this past weekend at VIR - some thoughts:

1. I suck, but I'm learning.
2. Despite the fact that I suck - the supercharger in the straights allowed me to keep up with (and pass once or twice) - much better drivers.
3. The thought I had put into supercharging the motor paid off greatly (I'm boosting at 7psi, and I put a BIG DOUBLE CORE radiator in, and I have a vented hood, and I have a cold air intake, and I upgraded the injectors so they never run lean, and I have a boost capable computer to manage fuel delivery like a factory FI car)
4. All the crap I've taken from the turbo people about how bad the Jackson Racing supercharger is is a great big load of horse doody. Turbo's may be better for some purposes, but this is just fine.
5. My very experienced instructors notations about the power of the car, and noticing the special features of the computer tell me that I went a good path - not necessarily the best path, but a good path.

Shawn

 

I'm curious as to how a lower temperature thermostat would cause the fans to kick on any earlier? It seems to me that their activation would be further delayed, wouldn't it? Or am I not thinking this through?

And besides, the fans are hardwired, right?



[Modified by Mike P., 11:17 PM 2/20/2002]

 

Thermostat determines at water water temp the fans kick on. Lower temp thermostat makes the fans kick on usually 10 degrees cooler.

Then you hardwire the fans for track use.

Tom

 

I run 265whp on the street setup rich as can be, when is the next Jefferson Circuit weekend?

Thanks,
Victor Perri II

 

I coulda sworn the thermostat determined the amount of coolant flow to the radiator, while the ECU determines when the fan turns on via various coolant temp sensors.

 

That is true, but because of the relationship of the sensor to coolant flow, if the thermostat opens earlier, the coolant temp sensor will trigger the radiator fan earlier.

However, whether or not the thermostat is a lower temp or not, if the ECU doesn't detect the coolant to be at the "on fan" temp, the fan will not run. So, both thoughts are correct, but the relationship is so intermingled, it's hard to figure out unless you know the wiring.

Shawn