Hi All,

First of all, does anyone know how to measure on the sleeve how low the sleeve will allow your car to drop?

And second of all, is the following set up feasable?

Cheap sleeves and Springs


+

Koni Yellow SP3s



What if I were to go with better springs? Would all this stuff be compatible? I was going to go with the tein basics, but they don't come with Koni shocks. What should I do? I drive an 04 accord, by the way.

Thanks for the help!


Modified by StarRizer at 4:56 PM 7/28/2005

 

im guessing those sleeves are made from steel or some cheap material that ill probably rust after a while and then u wont be able to change to ride height

 

Look, if you were to get the cheap sleeves for $0 how much could you possibly save over getting GC sleeves? The answer is a whopping $300. Now here's what you get for that $300:

1) You can get any spring rate you want
2) You know that the GC sleeves fit the Koni shocks
3) You know the GC sleeves won't rust
4) You don't have to buy another set of springs when you realize the cheap sleeves came with the wrong rate springs.

Spend the $300 - buying something once for a reasonable price is always cheaper than buying something cheap and then having to replace it.

regards,
alan

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Look, if you were to get the cheap sleeves for $0 how much could you possibly save over getting GC sleeves? The answer is a whopping $300. Now here's what you get for that $300:

1) You can get any spring rate you want
2) You know that the GC sleeves fit the Koni shocks
3) You know the GC sleeves won't rust
4) You don't have to buy another set of springs when you realize the cheap sleeves came with the wrong rate springs.

Spend the $300 - buying something once for a reasonable price is always cheaper than buying something cheap and then having to replace it.

regards,
alan</TD></TR></TABLE>

But aren't these sleeves identical to the ground control sleeves except for the the non-anodized factor?

The advertisement for this sleeve said it allows for a 0-4" drop, but the GCs only allow 2.75, so the questions is...can the Koni SP3s handle a 4" drop?

Regarding the spring rate issue, how can I measure it myself? Do I need a special machine or something?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StarRizer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

But aren't these sleeves identical to the ground control sleeves except for the the non-anodized factor?

The advertisement for this sleeve said it allows for a 0-4" drop, but the GCs only allow 2.75, so the questions is...can the Koni SP3s handle a 4" drop?

Regarding the spring rate issue, how can I measure it myself? Do I need a special machine or something?</TD></TR></TABLE>


a 4" drop will do NOTHING for you in terms of good handling characteristics, you just want to look cool

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by temp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
a 4" drop will do NOTHING for you in terms of good handling characteristics, you just want to look cool </TD></TR></TABLE>

well...apparently some drops are done to aid in handling characteristics...



Not only does this accord-like Toyota Carina look good, but it can race as well. The lower center of gravity definately helps in manuverability. Straight up BTCC style. I'd say that this car has been dropped about 5-6 inches, so 4" may be feasable for the road if you (1) live in an area without many bumps (like I do), (2)if you are good at TAKING DETOURS, or (3) if your car lacks a body kit.

Is the threaded part of a sleeve is what one uses to guage how low it will drop your car? How low of a drop do Koni Yellows allow?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StarRizer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well...apparently some drops are done to aid in handling characteristics...



Not only does this accord-like Toyota Carina look good, but it can race as well. The lower center of gravity definately helps in manuverability. Straight up BTCC style. I'd say that this car has been dropped about 5-6 inches, so 4" may be feasable for the road if you (1) live in an area without many bumps (like I do), (2)if you are good at TAKING DETOURS, or (3) if your car lacks a body kit.

Is the threaded part of a sleeve is what one uses to guage how low it will drop your car? How low of a drop do Koni Yellows allow?</TD></TR></TABLE>


i would like to see pix of that car THAT low in action

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StarRizer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well...apparently some drops are done to aid in handling characteristics...



Not only does this accord-like Toyota Carina look good, but it can race as well. The lower center of gravity definately helps in manuverability. Straight up BTCC style. I'd say that this car has been dropped about 5-6 inches, so 4" may be feasable for the road if you (1) live in an area without many bumps (like I do), (2)if you are good at TAKING DETOURS, or (3) if your car lacks a body kit.

Is the threaded part of a sleeve is what one uses to guage how low it will drop your car? How low of a drop do Koni Yellows allow?</TD></TR></TABLE>
u cannot compare that car to a regular street car. mayb the entire suspension on that car has been redone. the fact is that, as soon as u lower any car any height u starting to mess up the suspension geometry. just bc u lower the center of gravity doesnt mean it going to handle better.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by snowman0520 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
u cannot compare that car to a regular street car. mayb the entire suspension on that car has been redone. the fact is that, as soon as u lower any car any height u starting to mess up the suspension geometry. just bc u lower the center of gravity doesnt mean it going to handle better.</TD></TR></TABLE>


exactly, thats why i want to see pix of a car THAT low in action, i seriously doubt it, i mean they could not go thru hairpins very fast because they would risk blowing a fender offa the car.....

 

you have to make absolutely sure your el-cheapo sleeves will fit the konis, or else you could end up having to replace them due to damage, like this guy:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1120730

koni will not warranty coilovers that are not made specifically to fit them using some sort of circlip capturing ring.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StarRizer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well...apparently some drops are done to aid in handling characteristics...



Not only does this accord-like Toyota Carina look good, but it can race as well. The lower center of gravity definately helps in manuverability. Straight up BTCC style. I'd say that this car has been dropped about 5-6 inches, so 4" may be feasable for the road if you (1) live in an area without many bumps (like I do), (2)if you are good at TAKING DETOURS, or (3) if your car lacks a body kit.

Is the threaded part of a sleeve is what one uses to guage how low it will drop your car? How low of a drop do Koni Yellows allow?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you considered that the suspension mounts may have been altered from their factory location to still offer some suspension travel. Add to the fact that the car has spring rates in the THOUSANDS......
There is no way a STREET car can benefit from a 4 inch drop. The only thing that will happen is the bottoming of the shock, and the spring rates going into infinity when that happens, resulting in a possible accident...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StarRizer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well...apparently some drops are done to aid in handling characteristics... </TD></TR></TABLE>

YA KEY WORD SOME! Your no name setup is far from what the picture you posted has.

 

i think your getting a mis conception that they are going to work jsut liek GC coilovers would. SUre the gengeral concept is the same ( being able to set a custom ride height) but with the GC you are paying for the quality, you are getting very well made sleaves and Eibach springs. so in my mind why spend $100 on cheapo coilovers when you are going to have to repace them eventualy, were if you pay the extra for the GC your never really going to have to replace them jsut my $.02

 

Once apon a time I had some cheap coilovers lseeve in the fashion of the ones you show here and it was not even 1 year before they were rusted tot the point that the hieght could not be changed,if you could keep them from rusting then sure I think it would work but why even take that chance,as far as the spring goes eibach sales any springrate and hieght you want but why put custom springs on the super cheap perches?

Oh yeah if you were to get those sleeves your best bet would be to tape the shock ,soo much tape that you have to force the sleeve over it,that will keep the sleeve in line and hopefully keep the threads from being beat to death by the spring and maybe even solving the rust problem at the same time, but then again why would you put tape on a koni shock?

 

Stick with what works and go with the Ground Controls. I was thinking of doing the same thing, getting no name coilovers, but I ended up biting the bullet and getting the Koni/GC combo. Trust me, you'll be very happy you did.

As far as ride height goes, if you drop your car 4 inches you will kill yourself. The ride will be so terrible you'll wish you never put the damn things on. How do I know? I know because when I put my suspension on I dropped it to the lowest setting, and man did it ride like ****.

Even though I had a very respectable setup, the suspension was so low that you could feel every single crack in the road and the car would continually bounce on rough roads. A quality suspension like Koni/GC is meant for improved handling, not slamming your car to the ground. If that's all you want to do go ahead and get the cheapest stuff you can buy. Just my $0.02.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by paopao &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Stick with what works and go with the Ground Controls. I was thinking of doing the same thing, getting no name coilovers, but I ended up biting the bullet and getting the Koni/GC combo. Trust me, you'll be very happy you did.

As far as ride height goes, if you drop your car 4 inches you will kill yourself. The ride will be so terrible you'll wish you never put the damn things on. How do I know? I know because when I put my suspension on I dropped it to the lowest setting, and man did it ride like ****.

Even though I had a very respectable setup, the suspension was so low that you could feel every single crack in the road and the car would continually bounce on rough roads. A quality suspension like Koni/GC is meant for improved handling, not slamming your car to the ground. If that's all you want to do go ahead and get the cheapest stuff you can buy. Just my $0.02.</TD></TR></TABLE>


just cut the springs yo!

 

It is critical that the sleeves that you use with the Konis will fit properly on and capture the spring perch circlip. That inside diameter of the sleeve needs to be 42mm to fit the Koni body and then there needs to be a groove for the circlip to slot into.

By simply looking at the stack of O-rings that they supply to act as spacers to keep the sleeve semi-centered, it is obvious that the ID on your pictured sleeves were made quite large to fir around many brands but not really fit any of them properly. Just for the fit issue alone with the Koni, I would absolutely would recommend against them or any other off brand sleeve system. If there are possible rust and otehr issues, they go beyond the safety issue of not fitting right. There is no doubt that if you have a problem with the perch and circlip, Koni will not warranty problems cause by ill-fitting parts.

Their simple statement of 0-4 inches of lowering is common but actually an insult to the intelligence of anyone who has any idea about how suspension works. I can think of no street car of any brand (some tall light trucks can do this) that can lose four inches of ride height and complression travel and still realistically function. Most Honda suspension started getting impaired for street use if you get beyond about two inches. Very stiff racecars can get lower but they don't see street use but still need to take many things into account.

There is a reason why these units are very cheap and the higher quality, better designed Ground Control units cost more. You are paying for more than a spring, a perch and a threaded sleeve. You are paying for the design, quality and engineering decisions behind the products. Caveat emptor.

BTW, you can be guaranteed that the BTCC car you are looking at has radically redesigned suspension geometry, relocated pickup points, probably not one stock suspension arm on it, and a budget that would make your head spin. You are comparing prime aged filet mignon to cheap hamburger (But both are cow!!).

 

i wouldnt slap those coilovers on the konis

 

you really believe your accord will handle just like that toyota race car just cause your car will be dropped 4"?

from almost any car enthusiasts experience... buy the quality stuff the first time, so you won't waste your money on several suspenision setups.

 

am I the only one that wants him to get those cheap springs and lower them 6" (and laugh when he comes back with a post complaining how when he tried to turn, his wheels ripped off his fenders)? Personally I always thought learning from first hand experience is the best way

 

I think a lot of people are overreacting. While it is not optimal, if they fit over the Konis correctly, I don't see a problem. I've seen far far far worse. $300 may not seem like much to many of you guys, but everybody has a budget, some less than others. If he can't afford it, thats the end of that.

EDIT: I don't see anything wrong w/ the cheaper sleeves if they fit, however I think a 4" drop is dipshitted.


Modified by opeth13 at 3:31 PM 7/20/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yudalicious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">am I the only one that wants him to get those cheap springs and lower them 6" (and laugh when he comes back with a post complaining how when he tried to turn, his wheels ripped off his fenders)? Personally I always thought learning from first hand experience is the best way </TD></TR></TABLE>


so did i, but common sense has to come into play sometime or another, and to me my common sense tells me not to lower my car anything lower then 2", the average height i use is 1.75" drop

 

slamming does not = good handling.. look at rally cars ! they handle on rails and are sometimes 4x4 ! slamming a street car is for looks, although you will get better handling due to more negative camber + lower centre of gravity, but it's dangerous if you hit a pot hole or debris ....

owned.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opeth13 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think a lot of people are overreacting. While it is not optimal, if they fit over the Konis correctly, I don't see a problem. I've seen far far far worse. $300 may not seem like much to many of you guys, but everybody has a budget, some less than others. If he can't afford it, thats the end of that.
Modified by opeth13 at 3:31 PM 7/20/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are REALLY stupid if you don't see a problem with the coilovers NOT fitting on the koni's correctly. did you even bother to check out what the link said above? Im guess not, OO and BTW CRX lee KNOWS HIM SOME KONI's.

if the guy can affored 500 dollar dampers, he can wait a few paychecks to get the right product

 

how much