NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover....
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From: Charleston, SC, USA
NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover....
Here is the situation and I am just letting all of you out there that are running these setups know this straight from the horses mouth.
About 3 months ago i sold a customer a brand new set of koni yellow shocks and a brand new set of omnipower slip-on coilovers. recently on a trip the customer had an issue with the shock, his first email to me:
"The only
thing is that yesterday the front shock Broke where the coil sit, you know
the "0" ring, it fell so the hole front left side of the car was to the
ground. I was in vacation far from home so i had to bring it at a shop where
they did some welding so i was able to get back home. I took A LOT of pics
of the hole thing broken and weld etc... I was wondering how can i pass it
trough waranty and have an other one ship to me?? "
see the pics below
http://www.gscdownloads.com/james/koni/
I forwarded all the information onto Koni and in fact the customer spoke directly with Koni as well - there answer - the warranty will not apply to this shock because the slip-on coilover that he is using was not designed correctly and did not sit correctly on the shock...my immediate question was where does it specify that omnipower slip-on coilovers will void your warranty on the shock or for that matter give me a list of slip-on coilovers that aren't covered under warranty - unfortunately there was no answer to this and even through examining the warranty information more i can't find anything to outright say that X or X coilover will void the Koni Warranty.
Basically what i am getting at is that depending on what slip-on coilover you are using the Koni lifetime warranty that you thought you had may actually not be in effect and the worst part is that Koni can't give you a straight answer as to what slip-on coilovers are covered and which ones aren't - off the top of my head here is a list of slip-on coilovers that i thought of - omnipower, skunk2, ground control, dropzone, hp racing, megan racing, bomz, arospeed and i am sure there are a lot more out there that if you are running you have unknowingly voided your Koni warranty - but they can't tell you that for sure until your shock breaks too.
I tried to explain this as clear as possible - please let me know if you have any questions and I will clarify
James Innes
James@GSCMotorsports.com
843-342-7992
About 3 months ago i sold a customer a brand new set of koni yellow shocks and a brand new set of omnipower slip-on coilovers. recently on a trip the customer had an issue with the shock, his first email to me:
"The only
thing is that yesterday the front shock Broke where the coil sit, you know
the "0" ring, it fell so the hole front left side of the car was to the
ground. I was in vacation far from home so i had to bring it at a shop where
they did some welding so i was able to get back home. I took A LOT of pics
of the hole thing broken and weld etc... I was wondering how can i pass it
trough waranty and have an other one ship to me?? "
see the pics below
http://www.gscdownloads.com/james/koni/
I forwarded all the information onto Koni and in fact the customer spoke directly with Koni as well - there answer - the warranty will not apply to this shock because the slip-on coilover that he is using was not designed correctly and did not sit correctly on the shock...my immediate question was where does it specify that omnipower slip-on coilovers will void your warranty on the shock or for that matter give me a list of slip-on coilovers that aren't covered under warranty - unfortunately there was no answer to this and even through examining the warranty information more i can't find anything to outright say that X or X coilover will void the Koni Warranty.
Basically what i am getting at is that depending on what slip-on coilover you are using the Koni lifetime warranty that you thought you had may actually not be in effect and the worst part is that Koni can't give you a straight answer as to what slip-on coilovers are covered and which ones aren't - off the top of my head here is a list of slip-on coilovers that i thought of - omnipower, skunk2, ground control, dropzone, hp racing, megan racing, bomz, arospeed and i am sure there are a lot more out there that if you are running you have unknowingly voided your Koni warranty - but they can't tell you that for sure until your shock breaks too.
I tried to explain this as clear as possible - please let me know if you have any questions and I will clarify
James Innes
James@GSCMotorsports.com
843-342-7992
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From: I am Tyson
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (GSC Motorsports)
you installed it wrong. koni isnt liable about that.
its designed for a regular wound spring on that perch. you altered its use and design when you installed the aftermarket piece. its rather unreasonable to list specifically what theyll "cover" or not. they dont have to cover anything thats its not designed for.
blame omnipower, or yourself.
its designed for a regular wound spring on that perch. you altered its use and design when you installed the aftermarket piece. its rather unreasonable to list specifically what theyll "cover" or not. they dont have to cover anything thats its not designed for.
blame omnipower, or yourself.
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From: Charleston, SC, USA
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (Tyson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you installed it wrong. koni isnt liable about that.
its designed for a regular wound spring on that perch. you altered its use and design when you installed the aftermarket piece. its rather unreasonable to list specifically what theyll "cover" or not. they dont have to cover anything thats its not designed for.
blame omnipower, or yourself.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the omnipower's install the same as ground controls on the little o-ring perch, they are saying that the omnipower didn't sit flush and caused the damage - that is not really what i am getting at - what i am getting at is that depending on what slip-on coilover you use it may or may not be covered - but as we have this discussion they can't give you a straight answer if your setup is covered until you see failure
i am probably one of the biggest proponents on koni's - they are an excellent product and have used them many times on my personal cars and sold many sets to customers - but as a retailer selling their product they can't give me a list of items that are covered and aren't covered when used with their shock, the is the biggest issue - and even though we sell the part and koni offers the warranty depending on what setup you have exactly it may not be covered
its designed for a regular wound spring on that perch. you altered its use and design when you installed the aftermarket piece. its rather unreasonable to list specifically what theyll "cover" or not. they dont have to cover anything thats its not designed for.
blame omnipower, or yourself.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the omnipower's install the same as ground controls on the little o-ring perch, they are saying that the omnipower didn't sit flush and caused the damage - that is not really what i am getting at - what i am getting at is that depending on what slip-on coilover you use it may or may not be covered - but as we have this discussion they can't give you a straight answer if your setup is covered until you see failure
i am probably one of the biggest proponents on koni's - they are an excellent product and have used them many times on my personal cars and sold many sets to customers - but as a retailer selling their product they can't give me a list of items that are covered and aren't covered when used with their shock, the is the biggest issue - and even though we sell the part and koni offers the warranty depending on what setup you have exactly it may not be covered
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From: I am Tyson
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (GSC Motorsports)
i believe youre not suppose to use the lower perch cup when you put aftermarket sleeves on them. they make adapters and even koni specific sleeves for this (GC at least).
however, i dont know what this picture is showing. what weld is this??
http://www.gscdownloads.com/james/koni/4.JPG
however, i dont know what this picture is showing. what weld is this??
http://www.gscdownloads.com/james/koni/4.JPG
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Charleston, SC, USA
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (Tyson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
however, i dont know what this picture is showing. what weld is this??
http://www.gscdownloads.com/james/koni/4.JPG</TD></TR></TABLE>
that weld was put there after it broke - the customer was on vacation and needed to get home and had a local shop put the car to a driveable state to get home
however, i dont know what this picture is showing. what weld is this??
http://www.gscdownloads.com/james/koni/4.JPG</TD></TR></TABLE>
that weld was put there after it broke - the customer was on vacation and needed to get home and had a local shop put the car to a driveable state to get home
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From: I am Tyson
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (GSC Motorsports)
ic.
well, you installed something that it was not designed for. koni shouldnt offer ANY warranty for ANY adjustable sleeve kit since its not under normal use. omnipower should tell their customers their slip over will not work with koni's. skunk2 does now. GC has known this and offers adaptors and specific sleeves. koni also has adaptors available.
you altered its use. i dont see how koni is liable about this. thats just my opinion i guess.
but thanks for educating us on what happens when you install adjustable sleeves wrong on konis.
well, you installed something that it was not designed for. koni shouldnt offer ANY warranty for ANY adjustable sleeve kit since its not under normal use. omnipower should tell their customers their slip over will not work with koni's. skunk2 does now. GC has known this and offers adaptors and specific sleeves. koni also has adaptors available.
you altered its use. i dont see how koni is liable about this. thats just my opinion i guess.
but thanks for educating us on what happens when you install adjustable sleeves wrong on konis.
Thread Starter
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From: Charleston, SC, USA
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (Tyson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ic.
well, you installed something that it was not designed for. koni shouldnt offer ANY warranty for ANY adjustable sleeve kit since its not under normal use. omnipower should tell their customers their slip over will not work with koni's. skunk2 does now. GC has known this and offers adaptors and specific sleeves. koni also has adaptors available.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
that is the point - as a retailer how am i supposed to know what koni will cover under warranty when it comes to slip-on coilovers and what they won't when they don't have it specified anywhere or can't give me the information - i have nothing against koni, omnipower or anyone involved but our customer is getting the short end of the stick for something that we had no information regarding
well, you installed something that it was not designed for. koni shouldnt offer ANY warranty for ANY adjustable sleeve kit since its not under normal use. omnipower should tell their customers their slip over will not work with koni's. skunk2 does now. GC has known this and offers adaptors and specific sleeves. koni also has adaptors available.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
that is the point - as a retailer how am i supposed to know what koni will cover under warranty when it comes to slip-on coilovers and what they won't when they don't have it specified anywhere or can't give me the information - i have nothing against koni, omnipower or anyone involved but our customer is getting the short end of the stick for something that we had no information regarding
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Future Texas Boy
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From: SoCal Redneck
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (Tyson)
This is why GC asks what shock you are running with the kit. Koni is doing the right thing IMO. I`m sure Lee will chime in soon.
Ryan
Ryan
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From: upskirtsville, NJ
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (RineRacing)
i would order a set from koni and then take off the old ones and return ship the old ones and call the CC company he used and explain they didnt honor there warenty and that your not paying and sent them back. also some cc companies have a thing were they will give you a warenty if the manufactor wont . . F(_)CK koni
imo they should list what they wont warenty, look at KYB they list that any drop over 1.5 isnt covered, thats alot more respectable then this sueto warenty
imo they should list what they wont warenty, look at KYB they list that any drop over 1.5 isnt covered, thats alot more respectable then this sueto warenty
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (GSC Motorsports)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSC Motorsports »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i am probably one of the biggest proponents on koni's - they are an excellent product and have used them many times on my personal cars and sold many sets to customers - but as a retailer selling their product they can't give me a list of items that are covered and aren't covered when used with their shock, the is the biggest issue - and even though we sell the part and koni offers the warranty depending on what setup you have exactly it may not be covered
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It seems rather unrealistic that a Koni should create a list of products that are covered because it's not Koni's responsibility to make sure some other company's products fits.
For example, if I used Skunk2 cams and they broke destroying my engine who should I seek warranty coverage from? Skunk2 or Honda? Do I need a list from Honda to figure that one out?
i am probably one of the biggest proponents on koni's - they are an excellent product and have used them many times on my personal cars and sold many sets to customers - but as a retailer selling their product they can't give me a list of items that are covered and aren't covered when used with their shock, the is the biggest issue - and even though we sell the part and koni offers the warranty depending on what setup you have exactly it may not be covered
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It seems rather unrealistic that a Koni should create a list of products that are covered because it's not Koni's responsibility to make sure some other company's products fits.
For example, if I used Skunk2 cams and they broke destroying my engine who should I seek warranty coverage from? Skunk2 or Honda? Do I need a list from Honda to figure that one out?
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From: upskirtsville, NJ
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (RineRacing)
that is a car maker, imo thats diff. koni is selling aftermarket shocks for people who lower or modify there vehicle. . . if the product fails they should fix it, and back to the car maker look at honda paying for problems with the Automatic trannys they are covering them
i know its not the same arguement witht eh auto tranny because its all stock parts BUT if they are aftermarket shocks and they know people can and will put aftermarket springs on them, if they dont like/ want to warenty a certain kind they should be up front, thats verging on shaddy buiness. . . . . not covering warenties says alot about a company, i think koni should eat it, or should pay for the bill at the shop for the kid. . .
or he should go and get a friend or diff cc and buy a set and then return the old and cancel payment so they eat it anyway
in your arguement bout the honda head with skunk2 cams i think thats liek sayign honda should pay if they shocks break with aftermarket springs, they werent made for aftermarket spings, but in the case of koni its entirely diff o well its just my opinon and i feel sorry for the guy
Modified by jason bouchard at 8:25 PM 1/19/2005
i know its not the same arguement witht eh auto tranny because its all stock parts BUT if they are aftermarket shocks and they know people can and will put aftermarket springs on them, if they dont like/ want to warenty a certain kind they should be up front, thats verging on shaddy buiness. . . . . not covering warenties says alot about a company, i think koni should eat it, or should pay for the bill at the shop for the kid. . .
or he should go and get a friend or diff cc and buy a set and then return the old and cancel payment so they eat it anyway
in your arguement bout the honda head with skunk2 cams i think thats liek sayign honda should pay if they shocks break with aftermarket springs, they werent made for aftermarket spings, but in the case of koni its entirely diff o well its just my opinon and i feel sorry for the guy
Modified by jason bouchard at 8:25 PM 1/19/2005
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (jason bouchard)
I will bet you that if you showed those photos to an OMNI POWER rep, they would tell you they were installed wrong. That spring perch isn't meant to be loaded up near the snap ring. The load is supposed to sit low in the spring groove, This is why several companies sell adapters to fit Koni shocks (because they arn't directly compatable).
Call Omni Power & ask if their coilovers are compatable w/ Koni shocks....
I don't understand how you can blame Koni for your dumb mistake.
Call Omni Power & ask if their coilovers are compatable w/ Koni shocks....
I don't understand how you can blame Koni for your dumb mistake.
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From: upskirtsville, NJ
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (94eg!)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I don't understand how you can blame Koni for your dumb mistake.</TD></TR></TABLE>
just wanna post its not my mistake, i run the omni full coilovers
I don't understand how you can blame Koni for your dumb mistake.</TD></TR></TABLE>
just wanna post its not my mistake, i run the omni full coilovers
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (jason bouchard)
Sorry, I wasn't directing my coments at you. They were meant for the installer of the failed units above.
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From: upskirtsville, NJ
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (94eg!)
yea its fine, it just sucks for the end user either way . . someone besides him should be helping him out in some way imo . .
if people need to put adapters on the coil overs to run them then it shoudl be told as that at the point of sale . . . i am in sales and would feel like **** if this happened to one of my cust. and i didnt tell him what was up before . . o well i hope everythign works out for the guy , and is the guy on honda-tech
thumbs up to the maker of the thread (GSC Motorsports) to letting everyone know what going on. . .
if people need to put adapters on the coil overs to run them then it shoudl be told as that at the point of sale . . . i am in sales and would feel like **** if this happened to one of my cust. and i didnt tell him what was up before . . o well i hope everythign works out for the guy , and is the guy on honda-tech
thumbs up to the maker of the thread (GSC Motorsports) to letting everyone know what going on. . .
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From: cali
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (GSC Motorsports)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSC Motorsports »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
that is the point - as a retailer how am i supposed to know what koni will cover under warranty when it comes to slip-on coilovers and what they won't when they don't have it specified anywhere or can't give me the information - i have nothing against koni, omnipower or anyone involved but our customer is getting the short end of the stick for something that we had no information regarding</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most defently Koni isn't at fault. You also may not be at fault, nor my omnipower be at fault.
If you told the customer that the omnipower's would work with the koni's then yest you are at fault. If some one from omni power told you they would work with the koni's then yes they are at fault. If the costumer himself took never asked and installed them he is at fault.
FYI after looking at the pictures again, the installer installed the dampers wrong and used a part that wasn't supposed to be used, it is his fault. (that cup isn't supposed to be used and it is ALSO installed up side down.
THese coil overs are a "one size fits all" type of thing. Koni has a specific type of sleeve they use for there dampers, and so does Ground Control, if fact Ground Control has several different types of sleeves all depending on what damper you use.
Another reason why GC is THE BEST coilover out there.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSC Motorsports »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i am probably one of the biggest proponents on koni's - they are an excellent product and have used them many times on my personal cars and sold many sets to customers - but as a retailer selling their product they can't give me a list of items that are covered and aren't covered when used with their shock, the is the biggest issue - and even though we sell the part and koni offers the warranty depending on what setup you have exactly it may not be covered
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is fairly ridicuolus to think they would give you a list of all the coilovers that work, **** every day just about some no name off the wall brand coil over is used.
that is the point - as a retailer how am i supposed to know what koni will cover under warranty when it comes to slip-on coilovers and what they won't when they don't have it specified anywhere or can't give me the information - i have nothing against koni, omnipower or anyone involved but our customer is getting the short end of the stick for something that we had no information regarding</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most defently Koni isn't at fault. You also may not be at fault, nor my omnipower be at fault.
If you told the customer that the omnipower's would work with the koni's then yest you are at fault. If some one from omni power told you they would work with the koni's then yes they are at fault. If the costumer himself took never asked and installed them he is at fault.
FYI after looking at the pictures again, the installer installed the dampers wrong and used a part that wasn't supposed to be used, it is his fault. (that cup isn't supposed to be used and it is ALSO installed up side down.
THese coil overs are a "one size fits all" type of thing. Koni has a specific type of sleeve they use for there dampers, and so does Ground Control, if fact Ground Control has several different types of sleeves all depending on what damper you use.
Another reason why GC is THE BEST coilover out there.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSC Motorsports »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i am probably one of the biggest proponents on koni's - they are an excellent product and have used them many times on my personal cars and sold many sets to customers - but as a retailer selling their product they can't give me a list of items that are covered and aren't covered when used with their shock, the is the biggest issue - and even though we sell the part and koni offers the warranty depending on what setup you have exactly it may not be covered
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is fairly ridicuolus to think they would give you a list of all the coilovers that work, **** every day just about some no name off the wall brand coil over is used.
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From: Portland, OR
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (jason bouchard)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jason bouchard »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if people need to put adapters on the coil overs to run them then it shoudl be told as that at the point of sale </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly, Omnipower should tell it's retailers that their C/O's don't work on Koni's. I still don't see how anyone can say it's Koni's fault for not listing everything that can't be done to their shocks that may void wrty.
So, if anyone has any coilover that is not specifically ment for a Koni, you should contact the manufacturer of the coilover and ask if it's specifically menat to fit a Koni and/or contact Lee at Koni and see if you can get the proper adapter mount that captures the snap ring.
Oh and lastly, no matter how stranded you are, don't let a hill billy hackshop weld your shock like that
Exactly, Omnipower should tell it's retailers that their C/O's don't work on Koni's. I still don't see how anyone can say it's Koni's fault for not listing everything that can't be done to their shocks that may void wrty.
So, if anyone has any coilover that is not specifically ment for a Koni, you should contact the manufacturer of the coilover and ask if it's specifically menat to fit a Koni and/or contact Lee at Koni and see if you can get the proper adapter mount that captures the snap ring.
Oh and lastly, no matter how stranded you are, don't let a hill billy hackshop weld your shock like that
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (jason bouchard)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jason bouchard »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">F(_)CK koni.... thats alot more respectable then this sueto warenty </TD></TR></TABLE>
Koni has bent over backwards to warranty their product nad help customers many, many, many times. They have one of the best warranties in the business. They are not responsible if you **** something up and break it. Take ffing responsibility for yourself.
Koni has bent over backwards to warranty their product nad help customers many, many, many times. They have one of the best warranties in the business. They are not responsible if you **** something up and break it. Take ffing responsibility for yourself.
say it
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From: US
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (GSC Motorsports)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i believe youre not suppose to use the lower perch cup when you put aftermarket sleeves on them. they make adapters and even koni specific sleeves for this (GC at least).
</TD></TR></TABLE>
</TD></TR></TABLE>
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From: Winnetka, Calif, USA
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (Rob @ K-Series.com)
Just to throw in my two cents;
I don't blame Koni for not wanting to warranty them due to the simple fact that they were not installed as intended. Koni wouldn't have supplied the lower spring perch if it wasn't part of how they expect the unit to be installed.
It would be nice if Koni could provide a list of "authorized" coil over set-ups, but it's not realistic due to the fact that they would then have to monitor that other manufacturer to make sure that changes were not made.
Wes
I don't blame Koni for not wanting to warranty them due to the simple fact that they were not installed as intended. Koni wouldn't have supplied the lower spring perch if it wasn't part of how they expect the unit to be installed.
It would be nice if Koni could provide a list of "authorized" coil over set-ups, but it's not realistic due to the fact that they would then have to monitor that other manufacturer to make sure that changes were not made.
Wes
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From: Portland, OR
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (Rob @ K-Series.com)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rob @ K-Series.com »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">any updates?</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah he installed them wrong. End of story.
yeah he installed them wrong. End of story.
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From: Get Firefox, CA, USA
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (nonsense)
haha.
well I was talking about what gsc is going to do for the customer and what omni power or koni has to say.
there is also the issue that james was talking about.
well I was talking about what gsc is going to do for the customer and what omni power or koni has to say.
there is also the issue that james was talking about.
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From: Union, KY, USA
Re: NO WARRANTY from Koni with X Brand Coilover.... (Rob @ K-Series.com)
I just got back in town from travels so sorry for the slow response. There is quite a bit of incorrect information here so I will try to cover most points. By Wednesday I had already spoken to the wholesaler of these parts and the owner of the car (Oliver) but I have not spoken to John of GSC who was the retailer.
In short, the Koni warranty is a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser as long as the car is used on and registered for the street against defects in materials and workmanship and against wear out for as long as that person owns them. What that means is that we guarantee that the shock was made correctly and will function correctly for the use it was designed or we will give them a new one for free. We cannot guarantee that you cannot break the shock by using it in a manner that is was not designed to be used, by misinstalling it, by accident or impact damage, or use it with another manufacturer's parts that may cuase a problem.
Technically, our warranty does not cover damage that is caused during racing, modification, misuse or mis-installation however our warranty department has been specifically instructed to investigate any failure to see what the root cause was. If the root cauue of the failure is not related to the situation that might otherwise void the warranty then we will regularly accept it. If a car has a coil-over sleeve mounted on the shock but the shock started leaking oil somewhere that was not influenced by the sleeve, we will accept the warranty, etc. If the spring perch circlip failed as a direct result of an improperly fitted coil-over sleeve system that was neither centered or loaded squarely on the circlip with proper capturing of the circlip (as was the situation with this car), then there is no warranty on this problem.
The mere presence of a coil-over kit does not mean that we will automatically void a warranty on a damper and we will not use this as an escape route to avoid a problem that is truly caused by the shock. If you are going to use a coil-over kit (and I have personally as well), we highly recommend that you use one that does fit properly on the Koni circlip and there are a several companies that specifically make parts for this (Koni and Ground Control are the most common). I cannot remember ever seeing a circlip problem on shock with a properly fitted coil-over. I have seen a number of circlip failures that have been caused by kits that are too large in inside diameter to sit and load squarely and have no provision for retaining the circlip.
When the photos of Oliver's car were first sent to us, I was the person who first looked at them and immediately red flags were waving all over the place. If you would look at the photo in James' link numbered 164, you will see the sleeve sitting on top of the Koni supplied spring perch after it had fallen down but before the attempted welding repair was done. Red flag #1 is that one can easily see that the inside diameter of the sleeve is quite a bit larger than the outside diameter so the sleeve and the load is not centered on the shock and spring perch. Note that the sleeve is offset quite a bit to one side so at any one time most of the load of the car and road impact will be taken only by a small part of the circlip and not spread around the entire circlip as it was made to. Red flag #2 is the presence of the Koni supplied chrome spring perch. If you are using the supplied perch normally made to hold a stock shaped spring then your coil-over kit has no provision for holding the circlip itself. Red Flag #3 is to look at the shape of the metal at the top of the spring perch. Note the dirty area where the metal curves upward and inward in the normal fashion toward the top but in this situation there is the shiny clean area where the metal actually curves back upward again because the steel has been hammered and stretched at it's innermost edge to the point that the hole got bigger and the circlip was extruded up through the perch until it fell. The little circlip did not break, the perch was hammered down so hard over it that the perch hole stretched too big. The circlip probably held on until the last seconds. Don't blame the circlip for breaking, it is merely a symptom of the coil-over hammering the perch down over it. A number of posters ahead of me have seen teh photos and posted their responses in our defense. Thank you very much.
All you have to do is look at the evidence in that one photo and see that it was not the shock itself that failed but the coil-over that broke it down. I personally saw these photos first, made the call that it was not going to ba a warranty as there was no doubt that the shock is not the root cause ("If the perch doesn't fit, you must acquit!").
In a situation on this forum last week, there was a Prelude that had a similar spring perch fall that used shorter aftermarket springs and the Koni supplied perches. Although I am quite sure that the primary cause of the failure was that the perch was up in a higher than stock location and when the car it a very bad pothole the spring perch went into coil bind and whacked the perch down over the circlip, I accepted the warranty and sent him a free new shock and another circlip and perch for the other side just in case it might have been damaged as well.
I spoke to Oliver about his car and what happened and offered to help him out by selling him a brand new shock at half of the List price to get him back on the road and suggested that he make some changes is his coil-over system so that it fits better and does not happen again. I then also got in touch with the manufacturer of the coil-over kit and suggested that they come out with a simple adapter ring to both capture and center their sleeve on the Koni ring so our customers not have this problem in the future.
Koni does not void the warranty merely by the presence of a coil-over perch and we certainly cannot create a litsing of every brand of coil-over kit that does not fit the circlip system. There are too many brands out there and more show up regularly. We cannot predict what aftermarket parts will be used with our shocks but we can advise caution and give suggestions. If you look at in our printed Technical Manual Catalog or in the FAQs on our web site ( http://www.koni-na.com/faq.html#7 ) you can see that we do tell people to be careful about installing improperly fitting coil-over sleeve systems. I probably have close to 50 posts on H-T alone advising and warning about how to properly use a coil-over kit.
Koni's warranty is not tighter than any other shock company (I have the warranty info from Tokico, KYB and Bilstein in my office) and we are in many ways much more lenient than most (we do not have a maximum lowering rule, etc.) but it does not mean that we can simply give new shocks to anyone who has a problem that is not related to the shock itself. We are not in the business of voiding warranties, we are in the business of making and selling good shocks to customers and taking care of them if there is a problem caused by our product in hopes that the next time they need shocks, they will come see us again.
Sorry for the long post but I thought it needed to be explained.
In short, the Koni warranty is a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser as long as the car is used on and registered for the street against defects in materials and workmanship and against wear out for as long as that person owns them. What that means is that we guarantee that the shock was made correctly and will function correctly for the use it was designed or we will give them a new one for free. We cannot guarantee that you cannot break the shock by using it in a manner that is was not designed to be used, by misinstalling it, by accident or impact damage, or use it with another manufacturer's parts that may cuase a problem.
Technically, our warranty does not cover damage that is caused during racing, modification, misuse or mis-installation however our warranty department has been specifically instructed to investigate any failure to see what the root cause was. If the root cauue of the failure is not related to the situation that might otherwise void the warranty then we will regularly accept it. If a car has a coil-over sleeve mounted on the shock but the shock started leaking oil somewhere that was not influenced by the sleeve, we will accept the warranty, etc. If the spring perch circlip failed as a direct result of an improperly fitted coil-over sleeve system that was neither centered or loaded squarely on the circlip with proper capturing of the circlip (as was the situation with this car), then there is no warranty on this problem.
The mere presence of a coil-over kit does not mean that we will automatically void a warranty on a damper and we will not use this as an escape route to avoid a problem that is truly caused by the shock. If you are going to use a coil-over kit (and I have personally as well), we highly recommend that you use one that does fit properly on the Koni circlip and there are a several companies that specifically make parts for this (Koni and Ground Control are the most common). I cannot remember ever seeing a circlip problem on shock with a properly fitted coil-over. I have seen a number of circlip failures that have been caused by kits that are too large in inside diameter to sit and load squarely and have no provision for retaining the circlip.
When the photos of Oliver's car were first sent to us, I was the person who first looked at them and immediately red flags were waving all over the place. If you would look at the photo in James' link numbered 164, you will see the sleeve sitting on top of the Koni supplied spring perch after it had fallen down but before the attempted welding repair was done. Red flag #1 is that one can easily see that the inside diameter of the sleeve is quite a bit larger than the outside diameter so the sleeve and the load is not centered on the shock and spring perch. Note that the sleeve is offset quite a bit to one side so at any one time most of the load of the car and road impact will be taken only by a small part of the circlip and not spread around the entire circlip as it was made to. Red flag #2 is the presence of the Koni supplied chrome spring perch. If you are using the supplied perch normally made to hold a stock shaped spring then your coil-over kit has no provision for holding the circlip itself. Red Flag #3 is to look at the shape of the metal at the top of the spring perch. Note the dirty area where the metal curves upward and inward in the normal fashion toward the top but in this situation there is the shiny clean area where the metal actually curves back upward again because the steel has been hammered and stretched at it's innermost edge to the point that the hole got bigger and the circlip was extruded up through the perch until it fell. The little circlip did not break, the perch was hammered down so hard over it that the perch hole stretched too big. The circlip probably held on until the last seconds. Don't blame the circlip for breaking, it is merely a symptom of the coil-over hammering the perch down over it. A number of posters ahead of me have seen teh photos and posted their responses in our defense. Thank you very much.
All you have to do is look at the evidence in that one photo and see that it was not the shock itself that failed but the coil-over that broke it down. I personally saw these photos first, made the call that it was not going to ba a warranty as there was no doubt that the shock is not the root cause ("If the perch doesn't fit, you must acquit!").
In a situation on this forum last week, there was a Prelude that had a similar spring perch fall that used shorter aftermarket springs and the Koni supplied perches. Although I am quite sure that the primary cause of the failure was that the perch was up in a higher than stock location and when the car it a very bad pothole the spring perch went into coil bind and whacked the perch down over the circlip, I accepted the warranty and sent him a free new shock and another circlip and perch for the other side just in case it might have been damaged as well.
I spoke to Oliver about his car and what happened and offered to help him out by selling him a brand new shock at half of the List price to get him back on the road and suggested that he make some changes is his coil-over system so that it fits better and does not happen again. I then also got in touch with the manufacturer of the coil-over kit and suggested that they come out with a simple adapter ring to both capture and center their sleeve on the Koni ring so our customers not have this problem in the future.
Koni does not void the warranty merely by the presence of a coil-over perch and we certainly cannot create a litsing of every brand of coil-over kit that does not fit the circlip system. There are too many brands out there and more show up regularly. We cannot predict what aftermarket parts will be used with our shocks but we can advise caution and give suggestions. If you look at in our printed Technical Manual Catalog or in the FAQs on our web site ( http://www.koni-na.com/faq.html#7 ) you can see that we do tell people to be careful about installing improperly fitting coil-over sleeve systems. I probably have close to 50 posts on H-T alone advising and warning about how to properly use a coil-over kit.
Koni's warranty is not tighter than any other shock company (I have the warranty info from Tokico, KYB and Bilstein in my office) and we are in many ways much more lenient than most (we do not have a maximum lowering rule, etc.) but it does not mean that we can simply give new shocks to anyone who has a problem that is not related to the shock itself. We are not in the business of voiding warranties, we are in the business of making and selling good shocks to customers and taking care of them if there is a problem caused by our product in hopes that the next time they need shocks, they will come see us again.
Sorry for the long post but I thought it needed to be explained.