ok guys, long story short.... i was driving in a row of cars and there was debris all over a two lane highway. I avoided most of it, but a drive shaft pops out from underneath the car infront of me and I run over it, puncturing the oil pan, damaging both front and rear lower control arms on the driver's side, a small part
of the sub frame and slashed the rear tire. Of course the concrete truck that lost the driveshaft was still at the location. I pulled over to check the car out and noticed that the oil was gushing out, and now i'm getting my car fixed by their insurance company.

I have a 01 ITR, NBP, with a jdm front conversion. 102k The car is in excellent condition, changed the oil with full synthetic every 3000 miles, and all the services have been done at the proper time.

The estimate: 8,250.89
less bettterment -1,820.50
total to be paid 6,430,39

Included on the estimate: front crossmember, lower control arms, exhaust manifold, floor pan work, tire and short block.
My concern is with the last two items. The short block they are including is a new one that is 2900, however because of betterment, they are only paying for 40% of that, 1160. The same with the tire, they are only giving me 30% the cost of a pontenza s-03 to be replaced with an economy tire.

ok, for those who dont know what betterment is, because they are replacing the entire short block with a new one, I will be "better off" than i was before, so they only pay for what they feel like is the value of the old equipment they are replacing. It has been noted on the estimate that, because this is a type r, there are no reman engines available, so I will only get a new one.

If I were to get everything fixed that they are including in the estimate, I would have to pay the 1820. I am relieved that they included the block because the car lost oil while running, and god knows what is damaged under the oil pan. However, I dont want to be screwed because of this betterment.

I just want to get you guy's opinion on all this and maybe use some of the responses to stress how priceless this car is.

thanks Kodi

EDIT: Please post what you would sell your Type R for, mods, and condition.... I"m having a hard time explaining that the car is a limited edition.


Modified by shaniquoi0177 at 6:54 PM 7/16/2005

 

I think you need to give me that caR , Free of charge of course

 

who gets to keep the old damaged part? you think you can sell some of them and get some money?

Will they increase your insurance premium because of this?

Also, respond to your signature...

I think poor girls like cars and money, rich girls like sexy boys.

 

So in other words you now have a spare block. I would take the pan off, check to see if there is damage to anything else, if so, replace it and keep the original block. Then take your brand new block and either keep it or sell it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaniquoi0177 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The same with the tire, they are only giving me 30% the cost of a pontenza s-03 to be replaced with an economy tire.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaniquoi0177 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It has been noted on the estimate that, because this is a type r, there are no reman engines available, so I will only get a new one.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
hmmm. these two sentences dont really seem to fit with one another, why cant they give you the original tires that came on the car?

 

kodi, renegotiate w/ the insurance. get more than 40% on betterment.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cosworth &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">kodi, renegotiate w/ the insurance. get more than 40% on betterment. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with Cosworth. They need to be coming out of pocket alot more than 40%

 

They way I look at is get the new block and put it in your car. Take the old block and sell it and recoupe some of you money this way you can have a new block in your car and it will basically pay for itself. Oh and good luck with it all.

 

when my civic was stolen, I was given the impression that the insurance company basically "bought" the shell to salvage it and recoup some of their losses, I would assume that they would do the same with the block since it is a part that can be remaned and resold. I will ask tomorrow, the adjuster handling this has been so kind and has gone on vacation in the middle of all this.

As far as reneging with the company on the betterment, I'm afraid that I will end up shooting myself in the foot, If I argue that the engine is in better condition than what they are trying to give me for it, then try to buy it back, they are going to ask a higher price.

Also, my car is at an acura dealership, so all the labor and parts prices are quoted from acura prices, I'd like to pull my car from the dealership to be fixed because I can get the same quality work from a local shop for half the labor rate. However, I get a major discount on parts from this partculiar dealership, and I would only buy the parts needed to fix it. Do you think this would be a "slap in the face" to this dealership to take my car to get it fixed elsewhere, (it is over 70 miles from my home). The guys there have been great to me, and don't want to damage my relationship with them.

as far as the economy replacement tire, I"m just as confused about that as you are. there were several items on the estimate that were labeled "economy replacement" which i assume means if it can be found cheaper but comperable, the cheaper is used. for example I'm getting "economy antifreeze"

oh and, the concrete company who owned the truck was liable for the damage done to my car, mine was not the only vehicle that was damaged, I was just one of two that actually stopped. Their insurance is handling all the damage so my insurance will not be affected.

 

claim you have back injuries to get some more money!!

j/k making fraud claims is bad

 

I think this is VERY unfair. If THEIR TRUCK caused damage to your car, they should replace everything with quality that is as good or better. If you had S-03 tires on your car, they should replace them with S-03. Yes, they now have to buy a new tire that's better than the S-03 you had on the car; but it's their fault it has to be replaced. I say, sue the bastards unless they give you full value!

 

frankly, tell them you dont want a betterment. in fact, you want another short block. free of charge. you dont care if they can only buy a new one. its a rare car. why should you be penalized?

take them to court, if they bitch and moan at 40%. tell them if they consider 70%, you'd be fine with that. any less and you'll see them in court.

their client, under their insurance policy damaged your vehicle. you deserve every penny to have it restored to the way it was prior at no cost to you. the fact they cant get a 102k mile shortblock isnt your problem. its theirs. they can continue to be stingy, or fork up. Frankly I'd take them to civil court.

 

JDM power plant and replace the tire and lower control arms used off of H-T for 4k and pocket the rest..

 

I don't think a Jdm powerplant is going to be accessible by the insurance company. Only because its JDM and a USDM engine is in it. I beleive that betterment is not the responsibility of the claimant, but the the insurer. The Claimant would not be in this situation if the insuree had the correct equipment, on thier truck. But Knowing how stingy Insurance companies have become, negotiating for at least 75% betterment would be better.

 

I would argue with the insurance company. The car had a perfect working motor in it at the time of the incident. You also had 4 high performance tires that were good. This was not your fault and it is the insurance companies responsibility to return your car to the exact same state it was in before the incident or better. If they feel that someone needs to pay then they need to take it up with the trucking company who is at fault here. You are not at fault, I would not pay $1 out of pocket. I also take it that you have rental coverage while they decide what they are going to do? Each day they sit on this should be costing them $25+ a day for a rental car to you. Even if you don't take the rental car they should be paying you that money. Every time I have become a complete ******* with the insurance company I have gotten my way. Good luck!

 

well, i called the adjuster today and of course got her voicemail, I left a message somewhere along the lines that "I am bewildered how you could come up with a value of 40% when you havent even bothered to ask for the service records. And that it is frankly impossible to determine the correct value based solely on mileage." ...... and of course there has been no reply.

my next step would be to get a lawyer involved, or even worse, my mother. As far as civil court, the responding officer made an interesting statement at the scene to the employees of the truck's company. He said that from a civil standpoint, they should get their service records in order, as well as check the load weight because the truck broke it's driveshaft while going uphill with a full load of concrete, possibly overloaded.

and yes, for each day they do not settle this, is $25 out of their pocket with the nice pontiac sunfire that i'm driving. I should post up some "rental abuse" pics!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaniquoi0177 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my next step would be to get a lawyer involved</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can sue them without using a lawyer. Just about everywhere has a "Small Claims Court", sometimes called "Pro Se Court", where you can sue someone for damages up to a specific dollar limit. I think in most places the small claims court is part of the county court system. The dollar limit varies from one place to another, so you would need to check to see whether your damages (which would include things like the cost of the rental car) exceed their limit.

However, you need to provide proof of your damages in court. That would mean receipts for what you spent, or written estimates for what hasn't been spent yet.

 

This poor forum has the worse luck with insurance...or lack of. Every week I logon and see someone either is getting porked by the insurance company or they didn't put collision on their car and it's stolen/wrecked.

Good luck with negotiations, never even seen "betterment" in my life and I lived in the US for 26 years. *shrugs*

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AussieR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">or they didn't put collision on their car and it's stolen/wrecked.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Collision protects the value of your car if it's wrecked.

Comprehensive protects the value of your car if it's stolen.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 255.255.255.255 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">frankly, tell them you dont want a betterment. in fact, you want another short block. free of charge. you dont care if they can only buy a new one. its a rare car. why should you be penalized?

take them to court, if they bitch and moan at 40%. tell them if they consider 70%, you'd be fine with that. any less and you'll see them in court.

their client, under their insurance policy damaged your vehicle. you deserve every penny to have it restored to the way it was prior at no cost to you. the fact they cant get a 102k mile shortblock isnt your problem. its theirs. they can continue to be stingy, or fork up. Frankly I'd take them to civil court.</TD></TR></TABLE>


.....just to echo what these guys are saying.

I've dealt with insurance many times before, and you can come out WELL ahead if you play your cards right in the negotiation.

Make sure you don't accept their first offer, nor their 2nd offer... Keep whittling them down. Eventually, they will give you $$$ and it should be MORE than what you're expecting - simply because of the depreciation of the vehicle, rarity of such, and the at fault of the other party.

They should also allow you to keep the itr shortblock - but only if you negotiate as such... fyi.....

 

Kodi,

this is their FIRST offer, they will try to get you to settle for as little as possible. this betterment bullshit is just a way for them to rationalize not to spend the money they OWE YOU.
In the words of Ray Liotta from GOODFELLAS:

They cant find a used block in good condition, **** you pay me
They dont want to pay to replace the tire you had on the car, **** you pay me

It was THEIR FAULT, you have to make them realize that, HAD THEIR CLIENT NOT DAMAGED YOUR VEHICLE, YOUR CAR WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN THIS PREDICAMENT. They have to repalce what was damaged, and if that means a new shortblock cause you have an ITR and they cant find a used one, then sucks to be them. I would push to get 2 new tires, cause it only makes sense to replace both, not the one they damaged.

THey are gonna argue and hassle, and at the end of the day, THEY KNOW THEY HAVE TO PAY. you just have to get them to commit to it. next time you tlak to her say "betterment=bullshit. I want what you OWE me, which is my vehicle restored to the state it was in BEFORE you client hit me."

you have a HUGE risk in front of you. If you settle for something that is substandard, what happens 500 miles down the road? your oil pan was punctured, and oil came out of the car, WHILE IT WAS RUNNING, the drop in oil pressure alone mandates that the pan at least be pulled off and inspected. but what happens if you spin a bearing 500,1000,10000 miles down the road, was it coincidence, or caused by this accident? you need to protect yourself, and acura seems like they are doing it by reccomending a new motor. its the only way to be sure.

They cannot keep your old motor, the reason why they kept the shell of your SI is becuase that car has no title , nor any owner anymore. they paid you out what the car was worth, the car no longer belongs to you. If it is recovered AFTER you have been paid out, then its the insurance companies property, only because there is no other owner for it. and yes they will resell it as a "theft recovery" to recoop losses.

But a shortblock , i cant see how they would get to kep it, if anyone does it will be acura, cause i know acura charges a *core* at least i have heard they do on things of this nature.

I would fightfightfight until they give you your brand new shortblock installed with ZERO money out of your pocket. after all thats what you have always wanted. Fix the car, brand new motor, im sure you would be more than happy with that outcome. However, if you just say pay me, and pocket the money, which is your right, then you can buy a JDM shortblock and take the car somewhere else. as far as "a slap in the face" , whatever, its business. pay them the labor you owe them for tearing and inspecting the car, and if you decide to take it somewhere else then thats your right, and those guys will understand. i personally say "in for a penny in for a pound" let them fix it since they have it, and you wil lget a warranty from them. or you cn come see me, and ill make sure you leave with Mugen wheels and Mugen Front bumper and your car will be fixed

good luck honey

 

For the tires... you should ask to have 2 of them replaced. Uneven tires are not good for performance, and you wouldn't be able to do a rotation on your car because of the LSD in front (tires need to be even with lsd). At the very least you should have matched pairs of tires.
I hate insurance...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GPNY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For the tires... you should ask to have 2 of them replaced. Uneven tires are not good for performance, and you wouldn't be able to do a rotation on your car because of the LSD in front (tires need to be even with lsd). At the very least you should have matched pairs of tires.
I hate insurance...</TD></TR></TABLE>

+1 vote

 

BUMP

on the fact i need something to show the insurance company to show the value of the car

 

Insurance is defined as pure risk, pure risk is the type of insurance that insurers accept. With pure risk there is a possability that a certain event will occur.

INSURANCE IS DESIGNED TO PLACE YOU IN A POSITION YOU WERE IN BEFORE THE LOSS, NOT TO MAKE YOU BETTER OFF

This is called the principle of indeminity. As far as the block goes the insurance company is supposed to supply you with a used block with equal or lesser miles. Not a new block beacuse this will put you in a position better than you were in before, and insurance is designed to put you in the same position you were in before the loss.

Before i started working for my insurance company i had no idea how insurance worked. All i knew was comprehensive and collision was full coverage, but there is alot more to it. I also thought adjusters got a bonus for paying out as little as they can on a claim but its not the case. As stated above the purpose of insurance is to place you in a position you were in before the covered loss.

I under stand some of the things the insurance company is doing may be upsetting because i too have been in arguments with an insurance company in the past.

Here are some tips that may help you....

when you call the adjuster, and as soon as her voicemail comes on hit "0", this should get you to one of her coworkers(thats how it works at my job) so you can bug the hell out of them. Get your name engraved in his/her brain so they know you are not settling on what they appraised you.

secondly, call and get some quotes from near by shops that know type r's, and have them write you up a quote as to how much a short block will run you, used of course because if its too much the adjuster will question if this is a new price for a block and will probably decline your request.

and as far as the tires, the adjuster is permitted to pay you out on the depreciated value of the tires not replacement cost. Yeah, I know it stinks.

The thing that sucks is this is how the insurance company treats the claiment. They treat their insureds alot better.

By they way, have you called your insurance company? Not to make a claim, but to give them a heads up of what happened. I would do that right away, the best possible way you can approach this is through your insurance company. You can make a claim with them, and they can subrogate to the adverse carrier for any money they paid out to you, and believe me they will treat you better than the other insurance carrier.

And as far as your rates going up, dont worry about it, this will be coded in the system as a NFA or no fault accident which will have no affect on your policy.

hope this helps you out