drove a friends 02 si today, and as i was putting the car through its paces going i noticed that any semi hard to hard breaking at 110 plus caused the rear end to start to go out , anyone who has felt this knows its not very confidence inspiring, so i did i a test thinking mabye i was at fault so i locked the breaks up at about 100 and had to fight to get the car to point forward all the way to a complete stop is this just his car or has anyone felt similar ? his alignment is perfect and the car has an unmodified suspension with brand new tires , ps this car is a blast to drive , with only a cold air intake i was able to have mucho grins in this bad boy now back to my 96 ex sohc , how crappy it feels after my 02 si ride!

 

Ricers....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94Vtecluder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ricers....</TD></TR></TABLE>

pot calling the kettle black...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mrwool983455 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">drove a friends 02 si today, and as i was putting the car through its paces going i noticed that any semi hard to hard breaking at 110 plus caused the rear end to start to go out...!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've been in a couple of high speed stops in my daily driver EP3 since I got it 65,000 miles ago. I don't have that kind of problem at all. I don't think the EP3 is any less stable than any other front drive car.

However, with any car, what happens when you go into threshold braking from very high speeds is that the rear end rises up on the springs. Although the rear suspension of the EP3 is pretty good for a cheap car, you are still going to get positive camber and toe out.

At the same time you are radically reducing the controllability of the rear end, you are also radically increasing the contact patch on the front tyres as the full impact of the weight transfer is realised. <u>Any</u>, even the most minor, steering input at this time will cause the car to want to go in the direction of that input, and the driver's attempts to counter that action could lead to an even worse reaction from the car.

The EP3's computer does have a brake stabilisation programme and the computer could end up fighting the driver's inputs if the driver doesn't realise the programme is there and what it's doing. One of the first things that EP3 drivers learned when they hit the tracks was that this stabilisation could be your best friend or your worst enemy. For example, if you're not prepared for it, you might try to trail brake to the left and get driven off track to the right because the car doesn't like what you're trying to do with the brakes.

This is not unique to the EP3, but the impact of threshold braking from very high speeds is something that we front engine/front drive folks have to think about.

If you are going to the track with your EP3, there are ways to counter this inclination, and improvements would include heavier front springs to slow the weight transfer, and ensuring that the rear alignment is set up in a way to cause less positive camber and less toe out under extreme deceleration.

Of course, one thing always leads to another, and if you're increasing your front spring rates to slow the weight transfer, then you will need to go up even more in the rear to improve rotation potential, etc., etc....

It goes on forever.

 

george is very correct and articulate.

one other factor to the darting about under hard braking could be the road surface (crowning, 'ruts' ,ect.).

the more you understand how your suspension behaves through it's entire travel, the easier it becomes to drive it to it's potential and actually predict how it will behave in such instances.

of course, you have have to have the skill and experience to execute the techniques needed to counter the negative behaviors of these instances.

 

And if you really want to learn how to drive your EP3: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1254177.

 

sorry to be a thread jacker, but ive always wonder how old is that crazy man Georgy with his o-so-never ending knowledge lol?

very good breakdown but u also gotta factor in the variables IE road type vehicle settings, temperature, wind, ect.

as u said the list goes on and on and on and well maybe just a little more lol

 

i don't know about george, but i don't think i could accurately add up the amount of track time i have put under my belt. if i had to venture a guess, it's well north of 100 hours. the stuff you start to learn about vehicle dynamics just becomes like a sunday drive. i say "start" because i'm still learning, but not much surprises me anymore...just rookies.

 

Having a few HPDE's under my belt I would have to agree with George. Upon threshold braking the car's rear end always felt like it was going to come out. It almost sways from side to side a litte. You just have to keep the steering wheel firmly placed straight and make sure you don't make any adjustments. I would be safe about high speed runs on the highway for that very reason. People may pull out in front of you and you might have to jerk the wheel.

 

down shift and brake next time ^^

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SlowEPfastDriver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">down shift and brake next time ^^</TD></TR></TABLE>

As long as clutch is engaged, the motor is helping to move the car forward.

You are not going to be able to slow the car at its theoretical maximum rate of deceleration if the motor is connected to the wheels.

Don't brake with the clutch out if you want to stop the car as quickly as possible.

 

RE: both feet in.