d16y7 with a y8 head (mini-Me) but converted to obd1...

i had the car running but it kept cutting off and studdering when i gave it gas after it warmed up. it was also idleing rough so some one told me the timing was probley off so today ive been working on the car and reading MANY timing posts...

my car as it sits... the crankshaft pulley is off. i dont have ANY of the timing covers except the heads timing cover behind the pulley (y8)

the crankshaft:
the mark on the sprocket is lined up perfect with the arrow on the oil pump.

the camgear:
the two etches (inbetween belt notches) are lined up with the arrows on the cover behind the gear and UP is pointing UP

the distributor:
rotor is pointing at the number 1 sparkplugs location. the 3 bolt part is centered not all the way advanced or all the way retarded.

car will not crank it just turns over. every things installed i turned the motor by hand it was alil hard but no stops and no feel of valves hitting pistons or what ever. when i line the bottom pulley back up with the arrow the top pulley is lined up with the arrows pointing directly at the notches... so the timing HAS to be dead on.

why wouldnt it crank if it would before i done the timing now that the timing is dead on. no CEL's

 

Did you check for spark? Does it make any popping noise when you try to start it?what exactly happens?

 

ok since the altenator isnt on i have it hooked up to a charger to keep the battery going... that way if i did have a timing issue the timings easy access... but when i turn the key the fuel pump primes. then i turn to crank it cranks over fast but never pops, backfires, or even sounds like its going to crank. ill check for spark now... should i check all 4 injectors or just one?

 

Check for spark first.

 

good call so far checked number1 and no spark so im going to see if i have a spare coil or rotor layin around to change out... im using a b7 distributor, the coil and i think igniter or what ever came out a y7 but the spring from the coil messed up so i put a y8 in a few days back and i dont remimber if it worked with that so ill go get a coil first

 

Whenever you deal with timing spark is the first thing to get effect. Timing = Spark. It doesnt matter what motor the internals came from as long as there 92 and up because there all the same (a good thing honda did).

Try to get ahold of a VTEC dist. If im not mistaken there different from non VTEC, im not 100% sure so maybe someone can chime in. But since most people dont go past the first post edit yours asking if non VTEC dist can work VTEC heads. Were you always running the b7 dist and it worked fine? If so then forget the last paragraph.

 

okay i gotta z6 coil in it and i have spark on all four cylinders now but still wont crank any thing else?

 

Is your firing order correct? What happens now when you try to start it?

 

ok it seems to be trying to start alil slow sounds fine tho no knocking or crap... my fireing order is starting with the C on the cap and going clock wise 1342 and starting from the timing belt working toward the distributor 1 2 3 4.. 1 closest to timing belt 4 closest to distributor. my spark plugs 2 3 and 4 were doused in gas (from starting it with out spark earlier) when i just removed them to check spark but spark plug one just smelled like it, but not wet. this is a bone stock all the way around 96 y7 block and 97 y8 head with obd1 sensors z6 intake manifold, fuel rail and stuff, and now a b7 dist. with z6 internals.

edit: 1342 i meant

 

Ok sounds like you flooded it. Take out your spark plugs and let them sit OUTSIDE of the head. So put them on top of the head. Wait 5 to 10 mins so the gas inside evaporates and try again. While your waiting see if you could find any codes (like maybe ignition or something might pop up).

Edit: Your firing order sounds off now that i think of it. Where exactly is the start, can you get a pic? It should be like a compass. North = 3, East = 4, South = 2 and West = 1. I remember obd2 dist. are tilted but there the same order.

 

k i cant get a pic i had to leave for the day earlier ill go out and try it in a minute and check my firing order again but i think its as u described the layout for the head tho is it like this

(dist.) 4 3 2 1 (timing belt)?

3
1 4
2
thats my dist. order.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ncskate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">k i cant get a pic i had to leave for the day earlier ill go out and try it in a minute and check my firing order again but i think its as u described the layout for the head tho is it like this

(dist.) 4 3 2 1 (timing belt)?

3
1 4
2
thats my dist. order.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

From what you have said above it's correct. Atleast it's the same for my EG. Can you atleast get it running so that you can check your timing? I am not sure about your engine, but for EG's it should be 16+/- at BTDC. Are you getting fuel? Sounds like your fuel pump isn't delivering enough fuel so when you push on the gas the engine cut's out. I hope this helps a little.

 

I've had an issue like that before, checked timing, spark, fuel, and anything else I could think of. This was after a transmission install and everything was nearly the same as before. I moved the distributor a hair towards the firewall and everything started up fine. Yes, the distributor was dead centered at first so maybe try there. If it attempts to start more this time it at least gives you a starting point.

 

thanks for the replys yeah im getting gas but i dont know how to tell if im getting enough gas. anyway to tell?

when i rotate the distributor either way it wont crank even tried to move it sligtly. also im tring to get it started so i can use a timing gun to get to 16 degrees BTDC. but i cant get it started. ill try to get it running crappy like i had it and use the timing gun to see where im at. i do know that the ONLY way i could get it cranked before i finally got the crankpulley off is to set the bottom to TDC with a long rod telling when the piston hits top and setting the cam gear to TDC then over 3 teeth and the dizzy ALL the way advanced... i have NO clue what timing that was but its the only way it would crank now it wont even do that.

im running a B7 (DX) ECU on this minime because i cant get my hands on a z6 (EX) ECU do u think that could make this much of a difference, or if maybe my ecu's fried.

 

bump. any relays i should check or way to test the fuel pump for correct voltage or pressure?

 

had the same problems..here's some answers..

1. the dizzy has NOTHING to do with vtec. nonvtec dizzy will work on vtec heads as long as the legs fit. (im using a 92 cx dizzy on my 00 y8 head, idles fines and VTEC's LOUD)

2. my car didnt start either when i put my d-series back in (i'm a b-series persone). found out a week later that i was using the firing order from a bseries (they are different) instead of a d-series. the order should be like this

1 3

2 4

(dizzy to timing belt)

4 3 2 1

 

Try getting the EX ecu.

Also if you can run a compression check and come back to us with the numbers. might be a long shot.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pennies_hatchie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

1 3

2 4

(dizzy to timing belt)

4 3 2 1

</TD></TR></TABLE>
thats the exact same order mines in.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Try getting the EX ecu.

Also if you can run a compression check and come back to us with the numbers. might be a long shot.</TD></TR></TABLE>

im going to borrow my old EX ecu i sold to a friend hopefully today, about the compression test... i heard u had to let the car idle and warm first? i tried on the other day first time i ever did one and the numbers turned out lik 120 110 110 125 but i couldnt warm the engine first, and i forgot to unplug the fuel injectors.

 

update i got the car to almost crank it trys to and some times sounds like it does then cuts off i dont think im getting fuel now tho because i cant smell it and i done something iread about taking all plugs out and laying a light colored town over the holes and looking for fuel rings on the rag. i am getting fuel to the filter/fuel rail, and also out the bottom of the FPR (which is stock). any idea how the fuel injectors arent firing? also i took the intakemanifold loose as a whole and pulled it back away from the block and got some one to try to turn it over and give it gas none of them spit at all. but the fuel pump IS priming. which is really weird anyone have any clues ive tried two ecu's.

ALSO my oil pressure light on the dash wont go off. and im not throwing any check engine lights.

is the oil pressure sensor for a obd2 engine different for obd1? cuz i dont remimber changing those out when i was going obd1... head sensors to.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ncskate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">update i got the car to almost crank it trys to and some times sounds like it does then cuts off i dont think im getting fuel now tho because i cant smell it and i done something iread about taking all plugs out and laying a light colored town over the holes and looking for fuel rings on the rag. i am getting fuel to the filter/fuel rail, and also out the bottom of the FPR (which is stock). any idea how the fuel injectors arent firing? also i took the intakemanifold loose as a whole and pulled it back away from the block and got some one to try to turn it over and give it gas none of them spit at all. but the fuel pump IS priming. which is really weird anyone have any clues ive tried two ecu's.

ALSO my oil pressure light on the dash wont go off. and im not throwing any check engine lights.

is the oil pressure sensor for a obd2 engine different for obd1? cuz i dont remimber changing those out when i was going obd1... head sensors to.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Likely your not getting power to them. Don't forget, without power to them they will not open and you won't start the car. Check all your wiring and electrical connections to the injectors.

 

hey i got all that fixed alil while ago but now when i crank the car the injectors all 4 tick loud as hell, and after the car warms up it idles 600-750rpm, then if i press the gas pedal in any way (soft or hard) the car studders and cuts off.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ncskate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey i got all that fixed alil while ago but now when i crank the car the injectors all 4 tick loud as hell, and after the car warms up it idles 600-750rpm, then if i press the gas pedal in any way (soft or hard) the car studders and cuts off.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are having fuel delivery problems. Check your fuel pressure and fuel pump.

 

ok i just took out my spark plugs again #'s 4, 3, and 2 are wet #1 isnt im going to replace the number1 fuel injector and hope that helps

 

now my car cranks and idles and revs fine but only up to 4 grand what could cause this im hopeing its just timing again?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ncskate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">now my car cranks and idles and revs fine but only up to 4 grand what could cause this im hopeing its just timing again?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Start with checking and adjusting your timing.