Now, I am not a fan of turbo timers at all; I don't trust the world to not steal my car while it's locked and idleing to cool down the turbo while I'm not there. Also a potential problem is what if the timer fail, and the car just keeps running overnight?

Pondering on this "problem", I made a design involving a check valve and an electric oil pump. (I think) it works like this:

The check valve is installed parallel to the engines normal oil feed line (vision a "Y"-coupling on to of the turbo). One end of this "Y" leeds to the engines oil filter adapter to supply oil to the turbo like any other turboed Honda. The other end of the "Y" is connected to a check valve that will close when the engine is running and there is oil pressure present in the feed line (to prevent the engines mechanical oil pump pumping the oil back into the oil pan trough the electrical pump).

There is an electric oil pump connected to the bottom of the oil pan that leads to the check valve before the "Y" on top of the turbo. The oil pump is run by the electrical timing circuit. Now, I am an electrician so the timing circuit will be easy to make with a timer and a relay. I envision the circuit will activate any time the engine is shut off and run the oil pump for about three minutes, circulating oil to the red-glowing hot turbo, thus cooling it and preventing coking of it's bearings.

On the drawing board (Adobe Photoshop CS ) it seems to be quite good, but I can spot one potential problem. What if the oil drains from the pump and back town into the pan? This could potentially lead to air in the oil lines and possibly kill the turbo (if the pump is unable to pump the air straight trough the system and back into the crankcase. A possible fix could be to install a check valve between the electrical oil pumps feed and the oil pan, or just mount the oil pump at the same level as the oil pan, or use a high quality pump that blocks any flow in or out when it's not running. Or possibly, the check valve at the "Y" will close all by it self (gravity is trying to pull the oil back down trough the pump, and a lower pressure is created at the check valve, closing it, and holding the oil in the lines.

Thaughts and suggestions?

 

hrmmmmmmm

 

and youre worried about a turbo timer not working right lol?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and youre worried about a turbo timer not working right lol?</TD></TR></TABLE>
OK, I agree, it IS a more complex system, but the benefit is that one can shut off the engine and still cool the turbo.

 

you need to talk to the kid that wants to "fix" the oil drain height on ramhorns i think.

What exactly makes you think this is even an issue? I have seen a whole lot of factory turbo cars going 200k+ with no timer and no oil pump system jobby. Water cooling would be the extent of any extra cooling on them, if any, and they last just fine...then when the tranny or something goes I take the turbo and put it on some kids civic for another 30k!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Oyvind Ryeng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thaughts and suggestions?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you buy a water cooled turbo like you should, you won't have to worry about any micky mouse bullshit.

 

you could do like VW's 1.8Ts and have a electric water pump thats runs after you shut the car off to help cool the turbo down

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you need to talk to the kid that wants to "fix" the oil drain height on ramhorns i think.

What exactly makes you think this is even an issue? I have seen a whole lot of factory turbo cars going 200k+ with no timer and no oil pump system jobby. Water cooling would be the extent of any extra cooling on them, if any, and they last just fine...then when the tranny or something goes I take the turbo and put it on some kids civic for another 30k!</TD></TR></TABLE>
OK, this system is basically a luxury/comfort-mod. It means I can kick the **** of the car and stop the engine immediately while saving the turbo from the agony of coking in it's own oil. This system is also very handy when street tuning the ECU and reading the spark plugs. I can take it to the rev limiter in 4th if I wished, engage the cluch, turn off the engine and coast to a stop to inspect the plugs for any abnormalities or signs of, God forbid, detonation/pre-ignition.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Loco Honkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you buy a water cooled turbo like you should, you won't have to worry about any micky mouse bullshit.</TD></TR></TABLE>
True, but most Holsets don't have that option, wich is what I plan on getting (got to love that grand efficiency, huge compressor map area, high pressure capability, insanely low cost (explect to pay ~$150 for a good HX35 in working order) and the ported shroud/anti-surge inlet wich sings beautiful 10,000 Hz whistles). Please note, I don't even have a turbo, much less a B, D, F, H or K-series that is begging to be force fed (my current A20A Accord will never ever see positive pressure in it's intake manifold as long as it runs; just to give you an idea of how long it will take me to actually testing and building a system like this). This is all planning and designing a better system than the "usual stuff" (better; relative to my use; (an acceptable system to one person might be a source of depair/worries to another)).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onePOINTsix &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you could do like VW's 1.8Ts and have a electric water pump thats runs after you shut the car off to help cool the turbo down</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, this system is similar, only it runs oil trough the turbo, not water. But water is definately a great cooling-aid (again, few Holsets are water cooled).

I hope you guys don't think I'm a ricer because I am in the early stages. Over the last years (four, actually, since I became obsessed) I have learned so much about everything engine-related, and I want my base of knowledge to be rock solid before I embark on the wonderful adventure of turbocharging Honda passenger cars. One of my goals are to not have to ask anyone for directions while in the working process. Well, like I said, it's highly possible I am thinking too far into this. It's true - most turbos live a long and happy life even when abused, but I have a problem with running a system that leave me with any doubts as to it's reliability, efficiency or performance. I hate worrying, and when one does it right the first time, one does not have to (worry).

 

If you want to build a better system, start looking at how late '80's Indy cars were boosted and copy that.

 

You're gonna have to check valve two or maybe even all three lines, depending on whether the pump will be running all of the time or not.

If you leave the pump running all the time, it should not push more pressure than the lowest pressure that the oil pump puts out. If it does pump more pressure than the mechanical oil pump does, then it'll start to take over oiling duty for the turbo. At idle rpm, the oil pressure is probably around 15 to 20psi. The elec. oil pump should pump around that or less.

If you leave the pump running all the time, then you won't need the check valve in the line that feeds the elec. oil pump. You should also considering if there's a need to sump the pick up and/or baffle the pick up.

If you don't leave the pump running all the time, then you'll need the check valve...at the lowest point in the pick up line as possible. At the pump would be ideal.

Personally, I would have run an Accusump to provide turbo after-lubing/-cooling.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Loco Honkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want to build a better system, start looking at how late '80's Indy cars were boosted and copy that. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks, I'll see what I can find.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IN VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You're gonna have to check valve two or maybe even all three lines, depending on whether the pump will be running all of the time or not.

If you leave the pump running all the time, it should not push more pressure than the lowest pressure that the oil pump puts out. If it does pump more pressure than the mechanical oil pump does, then it'll start to take over oiling duty for the turbo. At idle rpm, the oil pressure is probably around 15 to 20psi. The elec. oil pump should pump around that or less.

If you leave the pump running all the time, then you won't need the check valve in the line that feeds the elec. oil pump. You should also considering if there's a need to sump the pick up and/or baffle the pick up.

If you don't leave the pump running all the time, then you'll need the check valve...at the lowest point in the pick up line as possible. At the pump would be ideal.

Personally, I would have run an Accusump to provide turbo after-lubing/-cooling. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks for your insight. I have looked into the Accusump system, and it looks promising. I'm sure even the smallest reservoar will provide enough oil volume to cool the turbo. I don't think the oil flow trough the turbo is large enough to warrant a very large reservoar. The Accusump system seems to be both "cheap" and simple - an electric system will be way more complex than an Accusump. I took a look at some prices and a Tilton oil pump from Summit was about USD$180, but thanks to favorable exhange rates against the Norwegian Krone it won't be to costly after all.

Of course, the "best" system in my eyes will be an electric dry-sump system. With something like that one can prime the engine before one starts (like an Accusump), one can taylor oil pressure curves over the whole rev- and load-range (by varying the voltage supplied to the pump, and one can circulate oil troughout the whole engine after shut-off, thus cooling the turbo.

But my ideal electric dry-sump system would have to have an ignition cut and alarm that will stop the engine and sound an alarm THE SECOND oil pressure drops below a pre-set value. This system would be idiot- and retard-proof (perfect for me), instantly killing the engine to prevent damage from running it with too low oil pressure. Of course there will be more lines and a remote reservoar, but using fittings and lines of good quality one can reduce the chances of leaks to "highly unlikely" (my father works in the hydraulics business).

Please note that this is all speculation and theories; I have not tested ANY of the things I'm talking about, but it seems to be all good on the drawing board (but how often is theory and engieneering in perfect harmony?).

 

Where can I get more info on those electricallly timed circuits and stuff :-) ?