the way i do this is to brake, clutch, downshift, gas, release clutch and repeat again to downshift 2 gears.

my brother says im supposed to brake, hold down clutch, downshift, gas, downshift, gas, release clutch.

which is the proper way to heel-toe going down 2+ gears?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2s10w4u &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the way i do this is to brake, clutch, downshift, gas, release clutch and repeat again to downshift 2 gears.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If it keeps you in rhythm, go right ahead and do what you want. Many good drivers do this.

Fastest way should be to let the clutch out only once.

Here's a recent 7-page discussion on it, with videos etc. downshifting technique starts on page 2.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1270924

 

Here's a vid of the porsche driver heel-toeing from 6-5-4-3-2-1 for a braking zone.

http://gscdownloads.com/leh/se...g.wmv
(from https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1162308)

 

There shouldn't be any reason to blip the throttle between shifts if you're not engaging the clutch. For that matter, you COULD just got 4th-2nd and skip 3rd. I personally don't like doing that, as I like to keep track of my shifts by going through each gear.

 

Your brother's method is incorrect. In your sequence, you need to add "brake" to the end. Also, I find bliping the gas in two short blips to be better than just one.

To be smooth, keep the same pressure/tension on the brake pedal when you blip and once you finish downshift, remain on the brake for a short while to settle the car before turn-in. If you let go of the brake immediate after finishing downshift, the car may bog and upset the balance of the car before turn-in.

Have your heel on the ground when you brake on streets. You will rarly find situations that you need such amount of force to have the pedal sink to the floor that you need to raise your heel to blip. Just position your heal inbetween the brake and the throttle for H&T using both side of your foot. The ball of your foot hold steady pressure on the brake while just blip gas with the right side of your foot.

Once you are comfortable with this and got the rhythem, it will become your second nature on track days where you brake hard and the right side of your cannot reach the gas padal and your heel will raise up naturally.

There are also turns with minimal time that you can not synchornice the downshifts. IE. Beaverun's right hander to uphill. You cannot do 5-4-3-2, it must go straight from 5 to 2, less chance of error or tightup the gearbox. Simply remain on the brake longer and just about your turn it, have a huge blip and slide in the 2nd. Sometimes, my blip hits redline for that damn turn




Modified by nEoMuGen at 5:22 PM 6/18/2005

 

Ray, what size shoe do you wear? Even on track, my heel never comes off the floor when braking, I'm wondering if it's just cause I have big feet

 

I have bondage feet...9.5

Usually, my brake will boil to the point that the pedal has to be on the floor to brake by 3rd session, so lifting my heel is a must. And lifting the heel will have a stronger pressure on the brake pedal.

 

Time to bleed between sessions?
Crazy NY Asians...

 

BTW, it's spelled AzN

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nEoMuGen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are also turns with minimal time that you can not synchornice the downshifts. IE. Beaverun's right hander to uphill. You cannot do 5-4-3-2, it must go straight from 5 to 2....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Personally, I can not think of a good reason to run down through the gears, even if you have the time. In fact, I'll venture to say that you really do <u>not</u> have the time for this, even if you can get it done before turn in.

 

i agree!

some turns i have great difficulty trying to double clutch a downshift.... so trying to run through gears... if you have the time to do this, you're definately not trying to efficiently take a turn

 

Yea I have to agree as well.. you worry to much about the downshifts, your gonna screw up the entry of the corner. It's kinda hard to judge on the GT3 vid, because your talking about a street car vs. a race car where the pedals are only a couple mm's in between another. I know you don't want to hear it, but it's seat time, try improving your line making every corner count and then work on blips on the downshifts.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 255.255.255.255 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">some turns i have great difficulty trying to double clutch a downshift.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

You're double-clutching?

 

Personally I always do 5-4-3-2-1 and never skip a gear. It actually depends on what rpm the engine is at right before you apply the brakes.

I can't see how someone could go from 4-2 when the engine is running at 8K rpm when you apply brakes. When you blip the throttle and release the clutch, the rpm would shoot thru the roof.

But if the rpm is still climbing, say at 6K rpm, then go ahead and skip a shift.

 

There are some corners justified skipping if the braking result in dramatic decrease of speed, and after a couple tries in 3rd gear, I was convinced that Beaverun's T11 (?) will not over-rev in 2nd gear. It's close to rev limiter on the blip, but it was necessary to have the car pull through that uphill.

In normal circumstance, I would usually go through the gears, it's a rhythem and I can pace myself downshifting. The problem with T11 is that slight right kink, that's definetly a no-brake zone, and right after that, only a smal stretch of straight for braking.

255's car got no synchros, so he has to double clutch

 

Busted tranny I guess?

 

Rotors are cheaper than synchros..use your brakes to slow the car down

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM Factor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rotors are cheaper than synchros..use your brakes to slow the car down</TD></TR></TABLE>

bingo

brake first, then double clutch revmatch downshift right before entry

i dont know if double clutching/rev match is actually saving the syncros, but i try to keep my tranny in good order. when i had my FD installed there was a comment that my tranny looked mint on the inside that made me believe I must have been doing something right

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's a vid of the porsche driver heel-toeing from 6-5-4-3-2-1 for a braking zone.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Holy ****!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM Factor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rotors are cheaper than synchros..use your brakes to slow the car down</TD></TR></TABLE>

True...when i do H/T for downshifts from 4th to 2nd, i brake hard first (the revs will drop accordingly as the car is still in gear) then when i'm ready for 2nd gear, blip the accelerator and shift into 2nd. I have never taken it into 3rd first...dont really see any point as i'm not going to be using that gear and so wouldnt be coming off the clutch till i'm ready for 2nd.

 

holy **** that guy shifts faster than the smg system on the M3 and downshifts faster from 6th to 1 LOL....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by icefire069 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">holy **** that guy shifts faster than the smg system on the M3 and downshifts faster from 6th to 1 LOL.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

i saw this video before, it looks like his seat is going to rip out if its mount. My seat never moves that much on the track. But I don't have a car that fast either

 

Heh your watching a lap around Sebring! Everything shakes like crazy on that track. Try driving a formula car with a mono-shock, you pretty much get air-lifted in 17

 

ok newbert question. when you are talkign about going 4 3 2, are you getting off the clutch in 3rd? or are you keeping the clutch pedal down and just bliping to 3rd for rythm?

 

I'm letting the clutch out for 3rd.

As for the RS seat, I had said something to the driver (Leh Keen I think?) about it, and he said they're all kind of flexible like that, but that's just the design for the 911 Cup seats.