Well this is the new problem.

For all that youve gone through with your S2000. WOuld u purchase it again?
Would u Purchase the new SI comming out. 200 H.P. Brembo's, LSD.

 

Is this a serious question?

Civic vs. S2000?

 

the S2000 is designed to be a sports car. small, light, RWD, tuned engine, great short throw gearbox.

The civic is more of a practical everyday car. They are simply giving it a little more "kick" if you will with the new Si. Still no comparison with the S2k.

 

Is it confirmed that this new Si will have Brembos and LSD?

Otherwise, its just like a RSX-S.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by revhi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is it confirmed that this new Si will have Brembos and LSD?

Otherwise, its just like a RSX-S.</TD></TR></TABLE>

brembos no

lsd is more than likely

the price tag is gonna hurt if it has all the goodies

 

"vs." threads suck!

 

cant decide with out seeing how the actual production si will turn out. id still probably say s2k though.

 

You've gotta be kidding me. I dont give a **** if they put the Civic Si out with a turbo, brembos, full Tein suspension and every other little gimick you can throw at it...its still a Civic, and its still an FF platform. (nothing against FF cars, but compared to the S2000, no.)

The reality of it is...the Civic WONT have brembo's (and if it does, its going to cost a fortune), the Civic will probobly have some nice #'s on paper as far as horsepower goes, but its still gonna run 15sec. 1/4's (which is what most people that buy the new Civic Si will care about anyways...lol) and really and truely, just how much is the car going to be tuned suspension wise for a low $20,000's vehicle.

You just cant compare these cars...the S2000 is out of the civic's league.

 

Ya, FWD is FWD no matter how good the LSD.

Now if the new Si was a barebones hatch weighing in at 2100 lbs and cost half what the s2k does and still had the 200hp, I might start leaning that way. But only because I'm poor

 

I'm not poor and now after owning an Integra RS and swapping in a K-series, I think it owns my S2000 on the street. Once I get a chance to, I'm sure it'd be a much more trackable car as well.

I don't see why there is so much "elitist" attitude towards Honda's "lesser" vehicles. If the new Si comes out with all the do-dads people are speculating, I'm sure they aren't targeting as the typical family Civic sedan.

There is good evidence that Honda could release the car with LSD, Brembos, and 200hp. They already have the motor (K-series), as well as the LSD (which they've used in Preludes in the past), and Brembos (which they are currently offering as options for the TL, and I think the RSX A-spec package).

Why wouldn't they leverage what they are already using towards a more "tuner" friendly Civic right from the factory (in fact if they didn't, I'd really call AHM out in dropping the ball). Toyota created a whole new company for tuners (Scion), Saturn created a new division, and Dodge, Ford, and Chevy are doing their own offerings (SRT-4, SVT Focus, Cobalt).

As far as Civic vs. S2000, don't be surprised at the next street light when the Civic may pull out ahead of you and you struggle to keep up. The RSX-S with a simple tune on a K-Pro and otherwise stock has the ability to run an S2000 through normal street driving (notice I'm not saying racing....because as all us S2000 owners know, the S2k is no launcher, is no light to light racer, etc.).

If the Civic is as light, cheaper, etc. just be ready...you'll see.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITRbroham &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"vs." threads suck!</TD></TR></TABLE>

ain't that the truth.


This is like asking a Corvette owner, would you buy a Corvette again or the new GTO?

There isn't a comparison because the cars aren't designed to be competitive with each other. Despite the similarites in each car, they're not alike, and don't perform alike.

 

Oh another thing, this thread seemed to start as an honest question and not the typica "S2000 vs. all" type of thread.

I'm sure at this day in time, if I had a choice between buying an AP1 vs. let's say either the 2006 Civic Si (or an RSX-S) for that matter. Keep in mind the pricing on a used AP1 vs. a new Civic SI or RSX-S would be very comparable. Factoring in practicality, functionality, and bang for buck, I may choose the Civic or the RSX-S.

If the choice was between an '05 AP2 vs. the RSX-S or the Si. I would go with the AP2, but then again, I'd be comparing two different cars for two different reasons in two different pricing segments.

I'd be more than likely comparing the AP2 with a 350Z, upcoming Z06, used e46 M3, etc. And now knowing and experiencing what I know about my S2000, I would have chosen a Z06 or a used M3.

 

Honda throws Brembo's on all there new car debut's. The only cars that actually went through with it where the TL 6spd and RL. The RSX Aspec doesnt offer it.
I highly doubt that they will be on the Si and if they are, they would probably just way the car down more.
Back to the debate, the new Civic will still be just a mass produced entry level tuner car. The 200 hp doesnt really impress since its available now on the RSX. It will have plenty of potential, but probably will just turn into a some ricers wet dream of bench wings and wide body kits.

It just really doesnt compare to the S2000 in any way except that its a Honda.

 

one is a civic, one is a s2000...does that sound hard?

 

lol...luder94, your posts are all over the map man. No offense, but when did the S2000 enter into the same class as the C6 Z06? lol...thats like comparing the current Civic Si to the NSX...just a little off.

I also want to comment on something you said...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as Civic vs. S2000, don't be surprised at the next street light when the Civic may pull out ahead of you and you struggle to keep up. The RSX-S with a simple tune on a K-Pro and otherwise stock has the ability to run an S2000 through normal street driving (notice I'm not saying racing....because as all us S2000 owners know, the S2k is no launcher, is no light to light racer, etc.).

If the Civic is as light, cheaper, etc. just be ready...you'll see.</TD></TR></TABLE>

...im no S2000 loyal meat head, as a matter of fact, we're trading (or selling) our S2000 this fall for something a little more daily driver friendly for my wife...so dont take this as the typical S2000 is the best type of mind state. The Civic Si, even with EVERY option they listed, wont even come close to the performance of the S2000, even light to light, ive had VERY little problem out running an RSX Type-S, even modified, ive had little problem. The thing you fail to realize is 2 factors...the cars are front wheel drive, therefore on the street, their performance #'s are even less than what is rated at a drag strip, because on the street, your not getting the type of traction that you would on a drag strip.

You compare an RSX Type-S with as you put it "A simple tune and Kpro"...well, lets get off the modification aspect, if we talk about modifying cars, we could throw a few parts on the S2000 and easily be in the 13's consistantly (though it is possible to break into the 13's bone stock)...you show me a near stock RSX Type-S that runs 13's...and i'll give you $100...and im able to say this with full confidence because it WONT happen.

I have nothing against the Civic Si or RSX Type-S...they are good little cars for what they are. But what they ARNT are comparible to the S2000. The S2000 IS a sports car, the S2000 IS built to handle EXTREMELY well, accelerate well (especially for a car lacking torque), and overall perform like its heritage, a sports roadster.

The real bottom line here is, as many others have said, you just cant compare these cars...you even said it yourself, so why do you argue about "light to light" runs and "street encounters"...S2000's can run door to door with SRT-4's, a car that was BUILT for street racing, and i can assure you, there isnt a stock or "near stock" RSX Type-S out there that with equal drivers, could do the same...and i know the Civic Si isnt going to out perform the RSX Type-S...so to worry about this car "Competing with the S2000" is not even something most S2000 owners ever think about, unless of course when its brought up in here...

Also...to speak on the elitest attitude...why not have one? S2000 owners drive a 100% hand built japanese roadster, a sports car that was built and derived directly from Honda's F1 heritage. They are limited in production (perhaps not as limited as some cars out there, but certainly limted in comparison to other honda models outside the NSX) and the car in itself is special in its own right...most horsepower per litre, a hand built roadster for what it cost to own a Mazda Miata, and not to forget, one of the best built and peakiest motors ever manufactured (and given MANY praises from nearly every magazine in the world)...and that doesnt even begin with the tranny, which has also recieved praise.

I think that a little horn tooting is in order...ESPECIALLY when your comparing this car to a Honda Civic.

 

this will become a pointless thread

 

Tis true...im just bored, felt like participating a little more than the norm.

 

not busy at work today?

 

Always love having slow days at the end of the week...bust *** at the beginning, enjoy a lazy thursday and friday.

 

i wouldn't mind that. almost like a 4 day weekend

 

Yeah...but typically only this time of year, when people are taking vacations, once september gets here, im lucky to get the weekends...lol.

 

ouch...well something has to pay the bills and stuff

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol...luder94, your posts are all over the map man. No offense, but when did the S2000 enter into the same class as the C6 Z06? lol...thats like comparing the current Civic Si to the NSX...just a little off.
I also want to comment on something you said...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes I am "all over the map"...but then again I've owned the S2000 for close to 6 years now, bought it when dealerships were commanding close to $20k over sticker, and driven hell out of it over those years. In retrospect, a Z06 would have been much better of a street driver, track car, and a "light-to-light" dick slinger. The practicality of both the S2000 and the Z06 are about the same (of which I was alluding to a C5 Z06).

Comparing to an M3 is fair for the fact that it'd have all the performance needs fulfilled for street driving and then some, as well as for hpde at almost any NA road course. I don't see why this one is out of its class in comparison either.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...im no S2000 loyal meat head, as a matter of fact, we're trading (or selling) our S2000 this fall for something a little more daily driver friendly for my wife...so dont take this as the typical S2000 is the best type of mind state. The Civic Si, even with EVERY option they listed, wont even come close to the performance of the S2000, even light to light, ive had VERY little problem out running an RSX Type-S, even modified, ive had little problem. The thing you fail to realize is 2 factors...the cars are front wheel drive, therefore on the street, their performance #'s are even less than what is rated at a drag strip, because on the street, your not getting the type of traction that you would on a drag strip.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm as loyal of a Honda owner sa they come, even more loyal when it comes to the S heritage. I followed the development of the SSM when it was only a concept vehicle and there was no talk of it coming to fruition. In fact, I was so loyal that I did put the $5000 downpayment down just to test drive the damn car.

As for the new Si coming close to an F20c powered AP1, I'd beg to differ. Even if the Brembos don't come with the car, don't you think braking system would be the typical parts bin system that the S2000 brakes come from (from the RSX I parted, the calipers seems to be the same caliper as what's on my S2000....only thing different was the rotor).

Ok, regardless of the brakes, let's talk motor. A 200hp K-motor (which has been proven to be more tunable with a higher margin of results than the S2000's F-series...proven by Shawn Church of Church Automotive) that has less of a drive train to move (since it's only driving the front wheels) vs. the S2000 drive train can simply put down more of its power to the ground.

Of the MY 2000 and MY 2001, you'd be hard pressed to find one that put down more than 204 horses of the 240 that was supposed to be coming from the flywheel. Majority don't break the peak 200hp "line".

As for running against RSX's that you've run against, find one that has a K-Pro with any of the pre-programmed tunes from Hondata. The K20a2 is very receptive with just the Type R map that can be loaded from Hondata's library. Don't run yourself against one with a fart pipe, intake, and headers....all those mods don't really do all that much on the K until fuel and ignition maps are dialed in....much like F20c.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You compare an RSX Type-S with as you put it "A simple tune and Kpro"</TD></TR></TABLE>

By simple tune, I meant using just a K-Pro with one of the pre-tuned Hondata maps...(see explanation above).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...well, lets get off the modification aspect, if we talk about modifying cars, we could throw a few parts on the S2000 and easily be in the 13's consistantly (though it is possible to break into the 13's bone stock)...you show me a near stock RSX Type-S that runs 13's...and i'll give you $100...and im able to say this with full confidence because it WONT happen.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can't speak to that....I don't know what a stock RSX does. I can only speak to what the K-series is capable of from experience of driving my swap, and from experience of driving against one on the street (again, not speaking to what's stock....keeping in mind that the RSX is a pretty hefty car and that this discussion is about Si's, which in 'Si' heritage, they've been tuned and lightened).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have nothing against the Civic Si or RSX Type-S...they are good little cars for what they are. But what they ARNT are comparible to the S2000. The S2000 IS a sports car, the S2000 IS built to handle EXTREMELY well, accelerate well (especially for a car lacking torque), and overall perform like its heritage, a sports roadster.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you considering that the "Si" has no heritage, has no following, has not "sports" DNA in it's genes? Let me remind you and direct you towards the thousands of CRX Si followers that would differ with your opinion. Keep in mind that many of these die-hards have owned some of the very first Hondas that were imported into this country....some of them can show you how much of a "sports" car a FWD Honda can be. I'm not talking about the CRX owners that you'll find on this board in the JDM Appearance section....I'm talking about the hardcore.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The real bottom line here is, as many others have said, you just cant compare these cars...you even said it yourself, so why do you argue about "light to light" runs and "street encounters"...S2000's can run door to door with SRT-4's, a car that was BUILT for street racing, and i can assure you, there isnt a stock or "near stock" RSX Type-S out there that with equal drivers, could do the same...and i know the Civic Si isnt going to out perform the RSX Type-S...so to worry about this car "Competing with the S2000" is not even something most S2000 owners ever think about, unless of course when its brought up in here...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree with some of the statements here. Any car is comparable with any other car. Regardless of what people say, you CAN compare apples and oranges. You can compare color, taste, texture, etc. Different class or not, there are many S2000 owners that can afford a "higher" class car. Hell, for my daily driver, I was about to pick up a used e46 M3. Why in the hell did I end up with an Integra (a DC4 RS at that!!!)? Firstly, I couldn't find a clean Type R at a reasonable price. Secondly, the Integra could do everything I wanted it to do that the M3 would...and then some.

The S2000 is hard pressed to stay neck-in-neck from light-to-light with an SRT-4 (stock for stock). If the S2000 easily hangs, I'd argue the SRT-4 owner doesn't know what he/she is doing, doesn't know he's being raced, etc. The S2000 is competitive in acceleration with the SRT from 50MPH and on. The Dodge just runs out of gear.

As for speculation on the new expected Si's not being able to hang with the RSX-S's, I'll argue that they should be able to not only "hang", but also to hand the Acura its own ***. AHM has seen the tuning scene hold it had back in the lat 90's slip in the new millenium. I'm sure they've gotten serious about bringing out another CRX Si type of car it had in the 80's. To do that, they really needed create a pocket rocket...something the RSX-S is not. It's a luxury sports coupe (something like a Prelude). By marketing and targeting the Si the way CRX Si was, they'll hope to recapture some of the Scion, SVT, SRT, MazdaSpeed, etc. customers they lost out on from the last generation of Si's.
Also...to speak on the elitest attitude...why not have one? S2000 owners drive a 100% hand built japanese roadster, a sports car that was built and derived directly from Honda's F1 heritage. They are limited in production (perhaps not as limited as some cars out there, but certainly limted in comparison to other honda models outside the NSX) and the car in itself is special in its own right...most horsepower per litre, a hand built roadster for what it cost to own a Mazda Miata, and not to forget, one of the best built and peakiest motors ever manufactured (and given MANY praises from nearly every magazine in the world)...and that doesnt even begin with the tranny, which has also recieved praise.

I'd also disagree about most owners only thinking about "competing vs..." here on this forum. Most owners think about it when they get revved at, at lights, are getting passed on the highway, can't keep up on rolls, etc.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think that a little horn tooting is in order...ESPECIALLY when your comparing this car to a Honda Civic.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The horn tooting was in order back in 2000 when the car was fresh and the rest of the North American world was high on SUV's and such. Now that almost every car company offers a niche product like the S2000, it's not so special anymore. I agree that the 120hp/L is a marvel...but as we can see, the American public didn't care. AHM had to introduce the F22 to market better torque numbers. 120hp/L is REALLY a marvel once you can get a 5.0L motor to do it..other than that...it's still a 240hp rated motor at a price point where you can buy a Honda Oddyssey with more horses.

OK...I'm bored at work as well and just looking for a debate too.

 

*starts making coffee for this one*

 

It's too hot....go get some Carvels or some Cold Stone Creamery ice cream.