just curious, but if you let a second person autox your car, would you want them to be faster or slower than you?

the reason i ask is because i have known this guy for a couple of years and have been helping him drive his civic a little better by telling him how to take some of the corners and how to drive his honda (not that i am a master, but i have been autoxing longer in my crx than he has in his civic). i had never driven his car before and actually never driven a civic other than my crx. in general, there are three people who drive my crx, and i am the fastest of the three. occasionally i would let my brother drive it, and he would beat me every time. after one of our meets last summer we had some "fun runs". he had taken six runs in his car to get his fastest time. he let me take out his car for two "fun runs". the first run, i was a half second behind his fastest time. then i remembered i was driving a different car (not the prelude i had raced earlier) and drove his civic like my crx. i beat him by over a second. he won't let me drive his car again. in fact, he doesn't listen to me any more.

in my opinion, i would rather have someone go into my car and drive it faster than i could so i can get some advice on how to be faster. does anyone else feel this way? or would you rather be the faster driver and just let someone else slower than you drive you car? i like to help out other people and i like being the faster driver, but i still like to get advice and then see what they are talking about by watching them kick my but in my own car. i don't know, maybe it is just me.

 

you are always faster in a car thats not yours

 

I'm not sure what I *want* someone to do in my car. But just about everyone who's co-driven with me has beaten my. Some by a tenth or two. Some by a couple seconds. The ones that really romp on me, though, are (or were) evolution instructors and people who've trophied at nationals, so I don't feel so bad.

-Mike

 

that's not true about driving faster in a car that isn't yours - my brother and my father seem to be able to beet me in just about any car that we drive. of course my father should, he has been at it for thirty plus years, but my brother and i are close and every time i let him drive my car or i drive his car, he still beats me. and i like it when some one beats me, it gives me more competition and gets me going to push myself harder to try to beat them.

 

Don't you know the #1 rule? "Never beat the cars' owner". If you do, chances are you'll never drive that car again. I broke that rule before (by 4-thousandths), and it's true......I haven't been invited into that car since.

Seriously though.....it doesn't matter to me. If you're faster, you're faster.



[Modified by johng, 9:22 PM 2/7/2002]

 

I like to see someone drive my car faster then me sometimes just to let me know that I need to spend less on my car and just get more seat time. Although, I have yet so see someone drive my car faster then me

However; The general rule is not to drive someone else's car faster then the owner.

 

This past December, Madhatter (Chris) beat me by ~.5 sec. driving my car at an autocross in Chattanooga. While a little hard on the ego, the opportunity of having a better driver with 2+ years more auto-x and track experience than I have is something I would do again and again. It was a great learning experience, especially for a rookie racer like me.

 

99% of the time I would prefer to co-drive with a very good driver as opposed to someone I know for sure I can beat. The 1% would be if there is a $5000 prize award for winning an event, so in that case I don't want any good drivers in my class! If my co-driver beats me, fine, but I think it's always better to come in 2nd, 3rd, etc. than to win an easy race and go home with a false impression. A couple of years ago I co-drove the type r with a really good driver Jay Parcon for a couple of events. Jay has years of track/autox and scca pro rally experience. That guy can drive! His first run was more than a second faster than mine, but by the end of the day I got to half a second of him. I didn't win, but the fact that I co-drove with him really helped me. His advice was really great and riding with him for a run was even more helpful. I'm sure I would have turned a slower time had he not been driving the type r also. Last year I looked for the best driver I could find to co-drive the type r with me at the one LTB shootout event that I planned to run. I got Shane Metzger to drive - he has raced in a Neon Challenge series race on ESPN a few years back, was leading the race but miss-shifted on the last lap to finish 3rd. When he made his trip to the solo 2 nationals two years ago, the F500 he was driving broke on the first day, but then he came back to set the fastest time of the day on the second day. Anyway this guy is just as fast Jay (maybe faster) and also much smoother. I'm really impressed every time I see Shane drive anything. So even though I knew we would have to run against each other at one point in the shootout, sharing a car meant a better chance of one of us winning it. If I was looking for an ego boost I could have just found some guy who never autocrossed before and co-drove with him, but what fun is that? As it turned out, the last three people left in the shootout were Shane, myself and Ken Rupp - another great driver. But Ken ended up beating both of us in the end...

If I would ever make a trip to the nationals, I would probably ask someone like Shane to co-drive the car with me. First of all I need a tire warmer and secondly I know I'll have someone as fast if not faster than me co-driving the car, so we have a better chance at bringing back a good result.


[Modified by Hracer, 9:55 AM 2/8/2002]

 

I've been racing for more than half of my life, so maybe the rules are a bit different for me, but most of the guest rides I get, the owner's EXPECT me to go faster than them. Some people want to show that they are a faster driver in their car, others want to show that their car is fast, no matter who has to drive. When my dad started driving with a friend of his, the owner told him after my dad out-ran him the first time that if he started running slower just because he was the car owner, he wouldn't let him drive the car any more. Oh well... I'd rather have someone out drive me, if they could

 

To me there are four reasons why I let someone else drive my car.

1) I want them to learn something from me
2) I want to learn something from them
3) Both 1 and 2
4) Just to have fun - no thoughts about competition

The same reasons apply when I drive someone else's car.

Perhaps he thought he was going to teach you something and instead you taught him something. That might have embarassed him and he is licking his wounds.

If you did not "rub it in" when you were faster than him and he is a decent person he will come around over time and you two will be talking. If not then too bad for him.

Regards,
Alan

 

i didn't rub it in. i am not that kind of person. i actually tried to give him some pointers on how to beat me, but he didn't listen. we still talk, but he just doesn't listen to the pointers i give him any more. i don't know. i don't let it bother me, i am just trying to help him out. i race for fun, and that is what it is.

 

Don't lose too much sleep over it...Some people can just accept help and learn from others and then some can't. It is a personality thing. For me, I like co-driving with someone, especially someone good. It makes you a better driver finding little bits about a course or the car that make it and you faster. It is also good to have someone that is familiar with the car to watch you and give you inputs on areas to try and improve.

You look at a lot of people at national level events and a lot of drivers are will confir on how they plan to attack a course, even people in the same class. If you want to improve, you have to listen to criticism. Just make sure you are listening to the correct criticism.



EC