Hey all. Thought you'd find this useful info - it's long but good. I'm posting this with permission from the author.

See you at the NASA VIR event.
Bryan
-----------------------
Friends,

I got this from a rallying friend regarding in-car safety issues. More
and more, it is leading me toward replacing my sub belt with a 6 point
style submarine belt. After seeing the film shown by Jim Downing at VIR
last year and now this I plan to make the change as soon as I can.

" .. safety seminar put on by Detroit Region earlier this year, right
after Earnhardt's death:

The main speaker was Dr. John Melvin, a bio-mechanics expert, who
headed GM's racing injury research team from 92 to 98 and is now a
consultant to all the major racing sanctioning bodies. They spent most
of their time analyzing Indy car crashes, but their findings are of
importance to all who race/rally. Here are some highlights:

1. The HANS device is the ONLY safety item that prevents the basil
skull fracture that keeps killing our friends in NASCAR, for example.
The big problem is the cars are now so stiff that the energy level
transmitted to the driver is much higher than it used to be. Indy cars
are even stiffer but all the flying carbon fiber dissipates a lot of
that energy.

The mechanics of the event have the torso stopping from belt tension
but the head keeps moving forward until it stops; that is when the neck
and spine are rotated parallel to the impact direction and it stretches
tight (OUCH!!). What has saved many drivers lives before the advent of
the HANS was the steering wheel...yes that's the key. The head will hit
the steering wheel and stop before the belts have completely stopped the
torso. This prevents the whipping effect. His best guess as to the
Earnhardt episode was that the broken lap belt (improperly installed)
caused his body to rotate right and his head MISSED the wheel. The whip
got him... He also said that in production type racecars like ours,
the crumple effect really reduces the likelihood of hitting hard enough
to be the recipient of this type of injury. In rally, we tend to have
lower speeds and "semi-movable" impact objects like treepoo pooing a
concrete barrier @ 100+ mph has much greater energy implications.
Having said that, I still think that a HANS might be a good idea in
rallying. Check with Mark Utech to see how he liked his.

2. Belt lengths should be kept as short as possible! I specifically
asked John about this one because I see all the WRC guys with the 3 mile
long belts. What people need to understand is the darn belts stretch a
bunch even when they are short! You should have seen the belt stretch
on the Indy tub lab crashes John showed. Long belts have other
implications. If you hit hard forwards your body will be off the seat a
bunch and if you then roll, your body will not be properly supported
which can cause other injuries. Think about it. Just because the WRC
is the pinnacle of the sport does not mean they truly understand this
stuff. John said some of the worst belt mountings he has ever seen were
in F1 cars. He also said he doesn't understand why the WRC guys do it
that way.

3. Racing seats should laterally support your shoulders, NOT your ribs.
Your ribs are not meant to take the punishment of a sideways input.
Good seats support your shoulders and put the lateral load in there.
That means all you guys with the aluminum seats that only have rib
support could seriously hurt yourselves under the right conditions. He
had nothing good to say about them. There is still a lot of debate over
mounting to the cage or not. Depends on the situation.

4. NEVER use 5 point harness. Use a 6 point with the anchors mounted
rearward of where your buckle ends up. The best way is to lay the sub
belt on your seat and mount it to the same place as your lap belts. The
idea of the sub belt is not really to keep you from submarining. It's
real use is to stop the forward motion of your torso. To do this the
sub must be stretched opposite to the direction of the force (the idea
that you can't push a wet noodle). The closer you mount the belt to the
horizontal direction, the sooner the system tightens up and stops your
body. By actually sitting on the sub like I mentioned, it acts like a
parachute sling making the belts very effective. I have tried this on
the Supra and found it a little uncomfortable at first, but I got used
to it. Of course I then crash tested the set-up and found that my belts
held me in place very well, even hanging upside-down!

5. The cheapo $3.00 roll bar padding is only good for soaking up blood
after an impact. It is too soft to absorb any serious impact. The only
kind to use if SFI approved stuff that goes for $15 for 3 ft. It has a
much higher density and hurts when you pound your fist into it. But it
is designed for the kind of impacts that you have it there for in the
first place. I redid all of mine and it cost me about $120. Cheap
insurance.

6. Steering wheels should be deformable. Any of you guys running a
Grant or similar "dune buggy" style wheel that has a steel rim under
foam padding are destined to break your forearms/wrist/hands. I know
you are out there because I have seen them myself. Get rid of it and
spend $150 on something decent that will not hurt you! Nuf said.

Whew. I feel better now. I can only hope that you guys take some of
this stuff to heart. I'm no safety expert, but I am an engineer.
Everything this guy said made sense and could be backed up with
science. I have changed a bunch of things on my car and feel good about
it. I just wish all of you could have been there to hear the good
doctor. The sport would be a safer place.

-- brad barber
peace. love. track.

 

Good info. Thanks for posting.

Grumpy

 

Thanks Bryan. I hope this makes people think... No reason to wait till it's too late. It's good to get this stuff out in the open where beginners can see it.

 

I still say SVT boy gets rolled next weekend....!!!!

Thanks for the informative post

 

Thanks for the info.. Its making me rethink some stuff....

 

Good stuff. I have been considering a HANS off & on for a little while now. It seems silly to me for my level of comp....until I think of what would happen to the family (wife, son, sisters, parents) if something happened to me.

 

yep
Hans device: $1200 - good but expensive.
Hutchens Device or Simpson: ~$350 - Suits the same purpose.
Cost of 1 MRI: ~$875 - That's just to see what's wrong with you..
Doctors and Surgery: Thousands.. possibly hundreds of thousands..
Being able to drive again: Priceless.
You weigh the options.

 

This makes me feel particularly dumb for driving my car on the street for three years. With the "soaking up blood" cage padding about 6 inches from my helmetless head At least there's big bolts behind some of that padding

--Karl, who would need to spend *still more* money to get all his safety stuff "right"

 

I too keep thinking about the HANS. Then I also think about how much slower we're going than NASCAR guys. Then I think about the deformable barriers we're more likely to run into than concrete walls. Then I think about how deformable the fronts of most of our cars are and how they were engineered that way. And I still haven't made up my mind. We can't protect ourselves from every risk - without just giving up and staying home. But how to assess the most likely risks and respond rationally. Go beyond the HANS - imagine being stopped sideways over the hill past that bridge at Road Atlanta and getting hit in the side. Without more cage than you probably have and one of those survival pods you are probably going to be bent pretty hard. Is that more or less likely than the kind of impact a HANS will protect you in? I really don't know. I do know I only have so much money I can put towards this sport.

Scott, who has to make up his mind pretty soon......

 

Yeah, I hear you. In my case, I have already made improvements to the cage. I bought radios which can be thought of as a safety device. I was able to tell Derek about spun cars etc while he was driving. One of the reasons I got the new helmet, besides the bigger eyeport for comfort of use, is because it is lighter=less stress on the neck.
I did see a HANS in person. I couldn't really try it on because there isn't any attachments on my helmet. I did place it on my shoulders. It felt light-didn't really notice it. While I am sure it will offer some side impact protection, it won't help like a seat built with the 'elephant ears'. I guess it is just a ? of how much safety is enough.

 

I am a rookie,

this post has let me know what to look for in the future.

I am just starting, I don't want to screw up now!

thanks,

aj

 

whew....i'm bout ready to cry....no wonder my mom cringes everytime i tell her i'm going to race. i will not be sending her this link!

this just reminds us of how DANGEROUS our hobby really is! even if you are only doing HPDE there is still the chance of serious if not deadly implications of your or your buddy's actions! i'm glad that i have met most of those i'll be on track with.

personally i like to know the type of driver that i'm infront of and behind...his (hers edit) tendancies...brake early, slide out of the corner, brake late. yall know what i mean but please let safety be our first defence!

late
chad
14

hope to be racing for along while with yall!


[Modified by G0D, 11:29 PM 2/6/2002]

 

I too would like some form of head and neck support. I went through all the possibilities and decided that a HANS isn't quite as necessary for what we do. I think the Hutchen's device is a good alternative. It is 1/4 the cost but offers the same basic protection as a HANS (all be it to a lesser degree). I think it would be more than effective for us.

Cobra - Who will be buying a Hutchen's Device this summer

 

Good info, thanks for posting! I too will be running lame padding on the bar for a while...that'll go on the list for when i have money tho. safety, be nice if it were free too