Ok, quick question. Why are the Omnipower spring rates 559 front / 445 rear. Shouldn't the rates in the rear be stiffer than in the front? It seems like all the other companies have stiffer front, and softer rear. Can anyone tell me the reasoning for this?


Modified by Chong at 12:52 PM 5/21/2005

 

no man most companys have higher in the front lower in the rear. your backwards haha.

 

stiffer front, softer rear = more understeer = less people spinning their cars on freeway onramps = less potential lawsuits.

it's a liability thing, and a safety thing. most people couldn't drive a car with the "right" spring rates correctly without nearly killing themselves so most spring people bias the higher spring rate to the front.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Deathwish &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no man most companys have higher in the front lower in the rear. your backwards haha.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ephatch.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[Springs]
Stock EP3: Spring Rate: (248 Front/440 Rear)
Stock RSX: Spring Rate: (279 Front/458 Rear)
-
Dropzone: Spring Rate: (? Front/? Rear) - Drop: (2in all around)
Eibach Pro-kit: Spring Rate: (15-20% more than stock) - Drop: (1in Front/1.1in rear)
Eibach Sportline: Spring Rate: (20-25% more than stock) - Drop: (1.4in Front/1.5in Rear)
GoldLine Springs - Spring Rate: (?) - Drop: (2in all around)
H&R Sport: Spring Rate: (25-30% more than stock) - Drop: (2in all around)
Neupseed Race: Spring Rate: (200 Front/280 Rear) - Drop: (2in all around)
Neupseed Sport: Spring Rate: (200 Front/280 Rear) - Drop: (1.5in Front/1.5in Rear)
Progress: Spring Rate: (280 Front/500 Rear) - Drop: (1.8in Front/1.5in Rear)
Sprint: Spring Rate: (20-25% more than stock) - Drop: (2in all around)
Spoon Progressive: Spring Rate: (413 Front / 458 Rear) - Drop: (1.5-1.7in all around)
Tanabe df210: Spring Rate: (10-15% more than stock) Drop: (2in Front/2.3in Rear)
Tanabe nf210: Spring Rate: (10-15% more than stock) Drop: (1.5in all around)
Tanabe gf210: Spring Rate: (20-30% more than stock) Drop: (1.3in Front/1.5in Rear)
Tein H Tech: Spring Rate: (257 Front/476 Rear) Drop: (.8in Front/.7in Rear)
Tein S Tech: Spring Rate: (280 Front/515 Rear) Drop: (1.4in Front/1.3in Rear)

[Ground Controls]
Dropzone: Spring Rate: (? Front/? Rear)
Ground Control EP3 kit: Spring Rate: (375 Front/450 Rear)
Skunk2 Coilovers: Spring Rate: (440 Front/330 Rear)

[Full Coil-overs] Spring & Shock (fixed height)
Mugen: Spring Rate: (283 Front/439 Rear) Drop: (1.4in all around)
Honda Factory Performance: Spring Rate: (? Front/? Rear) Drop: (?in all around) - very similar to the mugen kit, awaiting specs

[Full Coil-overs] Spring & Shock (adj height)
Buddy Club Racing Spec: Spring Rate (559 Front/894 Rear) (Adj ?? min - ?? max)
D2 Racing: Spring Rate (447 Front/559Rear) (Adj ?? min - ?? max)
JIC FLT-A2: Spring Rate: (504 Front/560 Rear) Drop: (Adj stock - 3.5in max)
KW V2: Spring Rate: (340 Front/515 Rear) Drop: (Adj 1.4in min - 2.6in max)
Omni Street: Spring Rate: (559 Front/445 Rear) Drop: (Adj 0in min - 4in max)
Omni Sport: Spring Rate: (670Front/559Rear) Drop: (Adj 0in min - 4in max)
Progress C1: Spring Rate: (350 Front/640 Rear) Drop: (Adj 1in min - 4in max)
Tein Basic: Spring Rate: (336 Front/448 Rear) Drop: (Adj ?? min - ?? max
Tein Type Flex: Spring Rate: (448 Front/559 Rear) Drop: (Adj ?? min - ?? max)
LSR: Spring Rate: (550 Front/450 Rear) Drop: (Adj 4 min - 4max) 12-way adj</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

lol i have no idea where you got those rates from...and i know most of them are wrong...especially the tein spring rates

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by azian21485 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol i have no idea where you got those rates from...and i know most of them are wrong...especially the tein spring rates</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, those rates are wrong. For most springs on the market, the fronts are heavier because of the weight distribution of the car. We simply need more spring in front because our entire drivetrain is in the front. Up to a certain point, that is---race springs often have a bit more rate in the back, but only once the numbers get up to 500lbs/in or so.

 

no way are most of those rates correct. especially the first two stock rates. maybe front/rear switched would be believable, but most of those are definately wrong.

 

-- Spring Rates archive -- « » 8:50 PM 4/24/2005 Reply Edit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some useful info here folks !
spring rates are in the archives

For 96-00 Civics (EJ6-8 and EM1 chassis codes)

P = Progressive (spring rates always changing on turns etc etc..)
L = Linear (spring rates stay the same)

96-00 EX - 165F/80R (P/P)
99-00 Si (EM1) - 201F/99.8R (P/P)
97, 00-01 ITR - 250F/250R (L/P)
GS-R - 200F/95R (P/P)
CTR - 240/240 (L/P)
H&R OE - 280F/190R (P/P)
Eibach ProKit - 290F/190R (P/P
H&R Sport - 330F/280R (P/P)
Eibach Sportline - 310F/275R (P/P)
Gold-line GL 2.5" drop - 320/190 (P/P)
Gold-line GPS 1.25" drop - 275/160 (P/P)
Koni RSK Suspension kit - 154-205/270 (P/L)
Neuspeed SofSports - 260F/150R (P/P)
Neuspeed Sport - 280F/180R (P/P)
Neuspeed Race - 485F/395R
Skunk Coilovers -old - 400F/300R (L/L) for civic, 500F/400R for integra
Skunk2 Coilovers - new - 500F/400r (L/L)
Spoon Full Coilovers - 300/240
Progress Coilovers - 350F/250R (P/P)
Progress Lowering Springs - 320F/200R (P/P)
Ground Control Coilover - 380F/280R (P/P) (this is the standard kit and the springs are mildly progressive).
Tein RA/RE/RS - 783F/559R (L/L)
Tein HT - 1119F/448R (L/L)
Tein HG - 365F/129-196R (L/P)
Tein SS - 448F/224R
Tein Flex - 504F/280R
Tein S. Tech - 235F/140R
Tokico Illumina Kit - 250/123 (P/P)
APEX'i WS - 447f/178r
Suspension Techniques - needed
SSR Cup - 392/280
SSR S1 - 448/448
JIC FLT-A2s - USDM - 504F/336R (L/L)
Sparco - needed


For 2002-2004 Civic Si (EP3):

Progress - 280F/500R
Eibach Pro-Kit- 15-20% stiffer then stock
Eibach Sportlines - 20-25% stiffer then stock
Sprint - 20-25% more then stock
H&R Sport - 25-30% more then stock
Tein SS - 336F/448R
Tein Flex - 448F/559R
Tein S. Tech - 157F/291R

Get it right jackass.

 

copied from Rob. thread about spring rates.

 

no wonder his first post confused me, that information is way off...

 

who ever posted those rates is pretty much wrong all the way around, BS FLAG!!!!

the first post of rates that is

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Deathwish &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">copied from Rob. thread about spring rates.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yep the first list of rates is Rong!

 

The first rates are for the EP3/DC5 which have quite different wheel rates than the older models. Entirely possible those numbers and/or front rear bias percentages are correct. Just because it's a 500lb/in. spring doesn't mean that that's the effective rate.

 

Me: 1 / Chong:0 haha

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Deathwish &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> -- Spring Rates archive -- « » 8:50 PM 4/24/2005 Reply Edit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some useful info here folks !
spring rates are in the archives

For 96-00 Civics (EJ6-8 and EM1 chassis codes)

P = Progressive (spring rates always changing on turns etc etc..)
L = Linear (spring rates stay the same)

96-00 EX - 165F/80R (P/P)
99-00 Si (EM1) - 201F/99.8R (P/P)
97, 00-01 ITR - 250F/250R (L/P)
GS-R - 200F/95R (P/P)
CTR - 240/240 (L/P)
H&R OE - 280F/190R (P/P)
Eibach ProKit - 290F/190R (P/P
H&R Sport - 330F/280R (P/P)
Eibach Sportline - 310F/275R (P/P)
Gold-line GL 2.5" drop - 320/190 (P/P)
Gold-line GPS 1.25" drop - 275/160 (P/P)
Koni RSK Suspension kit - 154-205/270 (P/L)
Neuspeed SofSports - 260F/150R (P/P)
Neuspeed Sport - 280F/180R (P/P)
Neuspeed Race - 485F/395R
Skunk Coilovers -old - 400F/300R (L/L) for civic, 500F/400R for integra
Skunk2 Coilovers - new - 500F/400r (L/L)
Spoon Full Coilovers - 300/240
Progress Coilovers - 350F/250R (P/P)
Progress Lowering Springs - 320F/200R (P/P)
Ground Control Coilover - 380F/280R (P/P) (this is the standard kit and the springs are mildly progressive).
Tein RA/RE/RS - 783F/559R (L/L)
Tein HT - 1119F/448R (L/L)
Tein HG - 365F/129-196R (L/P)
Tein SS - 448F/224R
Tein Flex - 504F/280R
Tein S. Tech - 235F/140R
Tokico Illumina Kit - 250/123 (P/P)
APEX'i WS - 447f/178r
Suspension Techniques - needed
SSR Cup - 392/280
SSR S1 - 448/448
JIC FLT-A2s - USDM - 504F/336R (L/L)
Sparco - needed


For 2002-2004 Civic Si (EP3):

Progress - 280F/500R
Eibach Pro-Kit- 15-20% stiffer then stock
Eibach Sportlines - 20-25% stiffer then stock
Sprint - 20-25% more then stock
H&R Sport - 25-30% more then stock
Tein SS - 336F/448R
Tein Flex - 448F/559R
Tein S. Tech - 157F/291R

Get it right jackass. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, look at the ep3 spring rates, they are stiffer in the back. And the Rates for Omni power are stiffer in the front, all of the others are stiffer in the rear. Also notice that you are the only one being a complete ******* because you feel you are superior for some reason. Its not a contest to who knows most, its a suspension forum where people go to get help and ask questions.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chong &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, look at the ep3 spring rates, they are stiffer in the back. And the Rates for Omni power are stiffer in the front, all of the others are stiffer in the rear. Also notice that you are the only one being a complete ******* because you feel you are superior for some reason. Its not a contest to who knows most, its a suspension forum where people go to get help and ask questions.</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you look at the above rates, all the spring rates are higher in the front than rear except for the ep3 spring rates..same as the rsx spring rates

the reason for higher rates in rear is because for the ep3 and rsx, honda switched to a mcpharson strut suspenion in the front, and double wishbone in the rear (or was it multilink? whatever)...in the previous years, all hondas used a double wishbone front and rear

double wishbone and multilink suspensions will give lower wheel rates...different for every car but you can generalize it to be around .4...macpherson will be closer to a wheel rate of 1...so we'll just say it's 1 for sake of being **** about percentages

so looking at

"For 2002-2004 Civic Si (EP3):

Progress - 280F/500R
Eibach Pro-Kit- 15-20% stiffer then stock
Eibach Sportlines - 20-25% stiffer then stock
Sprint - 20-25% more then stock
H&R Sport - 25-30% more then stock
Tein SS - 336F/448R
Tein Flex - 448F/559R
Tein S. Tech - 157F/291R"

i'll just do crappy math because i'm lazy

progress 280 front 230ish rear
tein ss 336 front 215ish rear
flex 448f 230ish rear
tein s tech 157f 135ish rear

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by azian21485 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if you look at the above rates, all the spring rates are higher in the front than rear except for the ep3 spring rates..same as the rsx spring rates

the reason for higher rates in rear is because for the ep3 and rsx, honda switched to a mcpharson strut suspenion in the front, and double wishbone in the rear (or was it multilink? whatever)...in the previous years, all hondas used a double wishbone front and rear

double wishbone and multilink suspensions will give lower wheel rates...different for every car but you can generalize it to be around .4...macpherson will be closer to a wheel rate of 1...so we'll just say it's 1 for sake of being **** about percentages

so looking at

"For 2002-2004 Civic Si (EP3):

Progress - 280F/500R
Eibach Pro-Kit- 15-20% stiffer then stock
Eibach Sportlines - 20-25% stiffer then stock
Sprint - 20-25% more then stock
H&R Sport - 25-30% more then stock
Tein SS - 336F/448R
Tein Flex - 448F/559R
Tein S. Tech - 157F/291R"

i'll just do crappy math because i'm lazy

progress 280 front 230ish rear
tein ss 336 front 215ish rear
flex 448f 230ish rear
tein s tech 157f 135ish rear</TD></TR></TABLE>


Great info

I didn't even think about the MacPherson suspension up front.

 

I know its not a contest i was just joking.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chong &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, quick question. Why are the Omnipower spring rates 559 front / 445 rear.]</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's not a one stop shop solution most of the time.

DC2 ITR USDM setup on the track might be heavy in the rear, but a DC2 ITR JDM setup will be quite heavy on the front.

But the lap times could be the same, depending on the drivers.

The heavy front setup might have 2.5 negative camber on the front, a huge swaybar in the rear, and lower tyre pressures on the front.

USDM drivers will say that they spend less money for a given lap time, and JDM drivers will say that their ultimate, lowest lap times will be better.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by azian21485 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if you look at the above rates, all the spring rates are higher in the front than rear except for the ep3 spring rates..same as the rsx spring rates

the reason for higher rates in rear is because for the ep3 and rsx, honda switched to a mcpharson strut suspenion in the front, ....</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's not quite that easy.

While it's true you can go really quite heavy in the rear with an EP3, the philosophy related to rear-heavy setups isn't just because of the suspension design.

It's tempered by an overall philosophy of handling and how to get there.

Most of the Honda Challenge drivers with DC2 chassis are heavy in the rear, for example.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's not quite that easy.

While it's true you can go really quite heavy in the rear with an EP3, the philosophy related to rear-heavy setups isn't just because of the suspension design.

It's tempered by an overall philosophy of handling and how to get there.

Most of the Honda Challenge drivers with DC2 chassis are heavy in the rear, for example.</TD></TR></TABLE>

true heavier rear will generally give you more oversteer with less headaches...i'm a firm believer of that..but that's only important in the racing world...the poster was asking why manufacturer's rates are heavy front...the manufacturer knows that 99% of the buyers will use them on the street..and a street setup = understeer setup