How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,399
Likes: 3
From: Chicagoland, IL
How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan?
Hey everyone,
Let's start with a premise that this isn't a blown motor. It is a B18C5, rebuilt 1000 miles ago, turbo.
My oil catchcan is a Moroso can with a single inlet, vented to atmosphere. Going into the inlet are the stock PCV (no valve, just the elbow) and valve cover breather, tee'd together.
On the street, I catch a relatively small amount of oil in it. But on the track, I seem to fill it before the end of a 30 minute session, even on a low boost setting.
What's the right answer?
-- Add a secondary catch can (waterbottle or whatever) that comes off of the top of the Moroso can (How much oil do I REALLY want to lose each session, though?)
-- Put the stock PCV valve inline to limit the flow from the crankcase, that's probably where the oil is. The current PCV is hollow, just an elbow to connect into the catch can.
-- Use the two holes in the back of the block to vent the crankcase.
-- Baffled oil pan to stop oil from sloshing up to the stock PCV location?
-- Drainback system (On the street I drain mostly water out of the catchcan, from condensation presumably I'd hate to drip ALL of it back into the oilpan.
Any hints, tips, tricks? Hopefully some of you have seen this before and fixed it.
-Chris
Let's start with a premise that this isn't a blown motor. It is a B18C5, rebuilt 1000 miles ago, turbo.
My oil catchcan is a Moroso can with a single inlet, vented to atmosphere. Going into the inlet are the stock PCV (no valve, just the elbow) and valve cover breather, tee'd together.
On the street, I catch a relatively small amount of oil in it. But on the track, I seem to fill it before the end of a 30 minute session, even on a low boost setting.
What's the right answer?
-- Add a secondary catch can (waterbottle or whatever) that comes off of the top of the Moroso can (How much oil do I REALLY want to lose each session, though?)
-- Put the stock PCV valve inline to limit the flow from the crankcase, that's probably where the oil is. The current PCV is hollow, just an elbow to connect into the catch can.
-- Use the two holes in the back of the block to vent the crankcase.
-- Baffled oil pan to stop oil from sloshing up to the stock PCV location?
-- Drainback system (On the street I drain mostly water out of the catchcan, from condensation presumably I'd hate to drip ALL of it back into the oilpan.
Any hints, tips, tricks? Hopefully some of you have seen this before and fixed it.
-Chris
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,399
Likes: 3
From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (El Pollo Diablo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wouldn't you want a pcv after the catch can in an if engine?</TD></TR></TABLE>
There's no more recirculation. The valve cover breather goes to the catchcan, to atmosphere. The crankcase also goes to the catchcan, to atmosphere.
Let's try some ASCII art.
Filter
*****
[ ] tee
[Moroso]======#=========To Valve Cover breather
[ ] "
[ ] "=========To stock PCV location (no valve)
[ ]
[ _____]
There's no more recirculation. The valve cover breather goes to the catchcan, to atmosphere. The crankcase also goes to the catchcan, to atmosphere.
Let's try some ASCII art.
Filter
*****
[ ] tee
[Moroso]======#=========To Valve Cover breather
[ ] "
[ ] "=========To stock PCV location (no valve)
[ ]
[ _____]
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,399
Likes: 3
From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (FormulaIntegra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FormulaIntegra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would probably opt for the drain back system.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have considered that. Plus, the drain valve on the bottom of the catchcan would give me a way to turn the drainback off for the street, to keep condensed water and fuel vapors out of my oil pan.
I'm slightly reluctant to poke another hole in my motor (yeah, just the oil pan)
But it's one more thing to leak.
-Chris
I have considered that. Plus, the drain valve on the bottom of the catchcan would give me a way to turn the drainback off for the street, to keep condensed water and fuel vapors out of my oil pan.
I'm slightly reluctant to poke another hole in my motor (yeah, just the oil pan)
But it's one more thing to leak.-Chris
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,929
Likes: 2
From: Kelowna Canada
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (Chris F)
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,399
Likes: 3
From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (Big Phat R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why not do it like the endyne setup?
http://www.theoldone.com/components/breather/</TD></TR></TABLE>
There's two real differences.
1) Pulling crankcase ventilation from the two ports in the back of the block. Why is this better? I've read it's better. Better flow, less oil, ???
2) Oil Drainback.
I have thought about getting the plugs for the back of the block and using them to vent crankcase, but I haven't heard a compelling reason to. AT LEAST not a reason that would limit the oil output.
-Chris
http://www.theoldone.com/components/breather/</TD></TR></TABLE>
There's two real differences.
1) Pulling crankcase ventilation from the two ports in the back of the block. Why is this better? I've read it's better. Better flow, less oil, ???
2) Oil Drainback.
I have thought about getting the plugs for the back of the block and using them to vent crankcase, but I haven't heard a compelling reason to. AT LEAST not a reason that would limit the oil output.
-Chris
Trending Topics
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,076
Likes: 0
From: Columbia, MO, USA
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (Chris F)
What kind of pressure does the return line for the turbo see? You could eliminate a hole and tee in to that for your recirculation assuming it just drains from the turbo with gravity.
Why don't you have a valve in your PCV system?
Why don't you have a valve in your PCV system?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,399
Likes: 3
From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (TeamSlowdotOrg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What kind of pressure does the return line for the turbo see? You could eliminate a hole and tee in to that for your recirculation assuming it just drains from the turbo with gravity.
Why don't you have a valve in your PCV system? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I considered tee-ing into that drain. Should be OK.
What does the PCV valve buy me? I'm going to atmosphere anyway. The Endyn kit (etc.) don't have a valve as far as I can see.
I hollowed out a PCV valve with a dremel, to get significantly better flow. The valve is a restriction. I was gonna try putting it back in, just to use the restriction to limit the oil flow out of it...
Why don't you have a valve in your PCV system? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I considered tee-ing into that drain. Should be OK.
What does the PCV valve buy me? I'm going to atmosphere anyway. The Endyn kit (etc.) don't have a valve as far as I can see.
I hollowed out a PCV valve with a dremel, to get significantly better flow. The valve is a restriction. I was gonna try putting it back in, just to use the restriction to limit the oil flow out of it...
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,399
Likes: 3
From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (FormulaIntegra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FormulaIntegra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would probably opt for the drain back system.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You know what, this is the right answer. It's the only way to deal with it once and for all, so I can worry about one less thing on the track.
Thanks for twisting the answer out of my brain.
-Chris
You know what, this is the right answer. It's the only way to deal with it once and for all, so I can worry about one less thing on the track.
Thanks for twisting the answer out of my brain.
-Chris
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,399
Likes: 3
From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (Chris F)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why did you hollow out the stock one? This must be some 2nR tR1ck I don't know about. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hollowed out a PCV valve with a dremel, to get significantly better flow. The valve is a restriction. I was gonna try putting it back in, just to use the restriction to limit the oil flow out of it...</TD></TR></TABLE>
not a 1337 2nr Tr1(k... just trying to get better flow from the stock location.
(It could be that I just don't know any better... but I didn't see the point of a valve since it's not going back to the intake manifold).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hollowed out a PCV valve with a dremel, to get significantly better flow. The valve is a restriction. I was gonna try putting it back in, just to use the restriction to limit the oil flow out of it...
</TD></TR></TABLE>not a 1337 2nr Tr1(k... just trying to get better flow from the stock location.
(It could be that I just don't know any better... but I didn't see the point of a valve since it's not going back to the intake manifold).
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
From: MD
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (Chris F)
What kind of compression numbers are you seeing after the rebuild, and after 1,000 miles?
Could you replace the pcv w/ a stocker, and change it more frequently? I can't imagine that w/ a stock pcv valve in place, that it'd lead to any significant pressure build-up.
Just an idea.
Could you replace the pcv w/ a stocker, and change it more frequently? I can't imagine that w/ a stock pcv valve in place, that it'd lead to any significant pressure build-up.
Just an idea.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,399
Likes: 3
From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (Tomakit)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tomakit »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What kind of compression numbers are you seeing after the rebuild, and after 1,000 miles?
Could you replace the pcv w/ a stocker, and change it more frequently? I can't imagine that w/ a stock pcv valve in place, that it'd lead to any significant pressure build-up.
Just an idea.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Compression is right about 175 across the board, right where I'd expect it for 9:1 compression.
I could go back to my stock PCV valve, and I was considering it.
Changing "what" more frequently? The oil, the valve? I missed that.
Could you replace the pcv w/ a stocker, and change it more frequently? I can't imagine that w/ a stock pcv valve in place, that it'd lead to any significant pressure build-up.
Just an idea.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Compression is right about 175 across the board, right where I'd expect it for 9:1 compression.
I could go back to my stock PCV valve, and I was considering it.
Changing "what" more frequently? The oil, the valve? I missed that.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,076
Likes: 0
From: Columbia, MO, USA
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (Chris F)
Before you make any big plumbing changes, I would suggest putting a stock valve in there again, and maybe have the other rig with the recirculation ready to plumb in just in case, at your next event. Yeah, it's not going back to the intake manifold, but the idea of the catch can is to catch and condense oil vapors, not act as a supplemental oil resevoir. You don't really need less restriction for vapors to find their way through an unmodified PCV valve, they have a way of doing that on their own.
You don't really need less restriction for vapors to find their way through an unmodified PCV valve, they have a way of doing that on their own.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
From: MD
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (Chris F)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Changing "what" more frequently? The oil, the valve? I missed that.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good on the compression.
Changing the stock valve more frequently, so it doesn't get gummed up by excess crankcase pressure/oil. Before you make any drastic changes (ie, re-plumb your setup, drill the pan) I'd consider this.
Changing "what" more frequently? The oil, the valve? I missed that.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good on the compression.
Changing the stock valve more frequently, so it doesn't get gummed up by excess crankcase pressure/oil. Before you make any drastic changes (ie, re-plumb your setup, drill the pan) I'd consider this.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,399
Likes: 3
From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (TeamSlowdotOrg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Before you make any big plumbing changes, I would suggest putting a stock valve in there again, and maybe have the other rig with the recirculation ready to plumb in just in case, at your next event. Yeah, it's not going back to the intake manifold, but the idea of the catch can is to catch and condense oil vapors, not act as a supplemental oil resevoir. You don't really need less restriction for vapors to find their way through an unmodified PCV valve, they have a way of doing that on their own. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah...
If I do end up with a oil drainback system, I'll probably put a on/off valve on it for street use, and to save myself a headache if it ends up sucking (or blowing, what have you).
-Chris
You don't really need less restriction for vapors to find their way through an unmodified PCV valve, they have a way of doing that on their own. </TD></TR></TABLE>Yeah...
If I do end up with a oil drainback system, I'll probably put a on/off valve on it for street use, and to save myself a headache if it ends up sucking (or blowing, what have you).
-Chris
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (Chris F)
Chris, I've been running the Endyn catch can on my jrsc R for 2 years with great results. Before the can, I'd burn 1 qt of oil every 20 minutes on the track. Now I burn only 1/4qt after 4-5 sessions (probably rings/seals).
If you hadn't dremeled your stock pcv, you could attach some hose to it for bleeding your brakes.
If you hadn't dremeled your stock pcv, you could attach some hose to it for bleeding your brakes.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,399
Likes: 3
From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (Batoutahell)
Update:
By not-overfilling the oil and replacing the stock PCV, it completely solved the problem. I started with half-quart low oil, and ended up with maybe two tablespoons of oil in the catchcan. I bumped the oil up slowly over this last weekend to normal-full, and I got a bit more in the catchcan, but not anything that I'd worry about.
Thanks for the help all.
By not-overfilling the oil and replacing the stock PCV, it completely solved the problem. I started with half-quart low oil, and ended up with maybe two tablespoons of oil in the catchcan. I bumped the oil up slowly over this last weekend to normal-full, and I got a bit more in the catchcan, but not anything that I'd worry about.
Thanks for the help all.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,863
Likes: 1
From: Cali
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (Chris F)
Just for future reference, you can use your PCv valve on the endyn breather kit. it would go in place of the filter they provide. The kit comes with a grommet and the valve. Not a plug nor a sales man, just information that most may not have.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,399
Likes: 3
From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (Renegade)
to be clear,
I stuck the stock PCV valve between the crankcase and vented catch-can, rather than just having a hollow elbow in its place.
-Chris
I stuck the stock PCV valve between the crankcase and vented catch-can, rather than just having a hollow elbow in its place.
-Chris
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 0
From: Orange, CALIFORNIA, USA
Re: How to deal with liberal amount of oil in catchcan? (Big Phat R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why not do it like the endyne setup?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't know if the Endyne system was designed with only Drag Racing in mind? But I have tried it on three perfectly good motors, all with no leakdown. And have gained nothing but a Catch tank full of oil after about 6 laps!!! The drain back system defies the laws of flow. They have the drain back pipe running into, and against the outlet flow? There is something dreadfully wrong with the Endyne theory? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Personally I have changed back to the good old Honda black breather box with a hose to the catch tank and a couple of good sized breather tubes off the Cam covers. Works great!
Kiwi
I don't know if the Endyne system was designed with only Drag Racing in mind? But I have tried it on three perfectly good motors, all with no leakdown. And have gained nothing but a Catch tank full of oil after about 6 laps!!! The drain back system defies the laws of flow. They have the drain back pipe running into, and against the outlet flow? There is something dreadfully wrong with the Endyne theory? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Personally I have changed back to the good old Honda black breather box with a hose to the catch tank and a couple of good sized breather tubes off the Cam covers. Works great!
Kiwi
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
limit
Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000)
5
Jan 10, 2009 10:52 AM
EG69
Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000)
0
Apr 12, 2006 09:06 PM