okay. car is 2575lbs loaded out and on the track and wet. the car has stock wheels for now. i have TOPS like $1500 to spend, but i'd much rather spend $1000. what should i do for brakes? they must bo very streetable, as in not too much noise, and they must live w/ no fade ever even after hours of flogging. also low maintenance is a must. and since it will see significant street use also, big rims are a big minus b/c roads by my house are very bad and would probably bend a big wheel before too long. BTW, no used 12.2" wilwoods. that's just a no-no for me.

 

if you run cobalt spec B pads, on stock brakes, you will never fade them unless you are running 200+ hp.

 

What tires do you plan on using?

 

not sure what tires yet. i can't win, i'm just out to have fun. later i'll focus on winning. right now, b/c of my mods, like cams and LSD, i'm in a high class, but i don't make enough power to be competitive. this is a work in progress however and i want to buy brakes for this car once and only once. when this car is finished i expect about 220whp, but that won't be for a while. it will then be mostly a track car, only on the street to get to the track or for little w/e joy rides. i still have ABS and plan on keeping it on this car forever. also what rear upgrade would be sufficient for this? maybe ITR-sized rears with nice pads, maybe 11" fastbrakes rear with nice pads, maybe stock with nice pads? one of those.

 

Seems like you want too much from a brake pad.

Pick your main use for them and let us know.
And yes what tires are you going to use with them?

 

What tracks, what race series?

Many people with integras run in the Honda Challenge H3/4 with stock brake systems. Have you tried new fluid new rotors and better pads? These will make hugh difference in how your brakes perform at all temps.

 

BTW, i'm leaning on splurging on the 11.75" kit b/c i think it will take everything and anything i can throw at it in the future. and i think the 11" rear upgrade from fastbrakes would compliment it nicely. but i've never bought track brakes before, so i wouldn't know. hence, i'm here asking.

 

New rotors, a couple sets of pads (swap them depending on what you are doing with it), some good fluid, and you still have $1000 left.

K

 

What problems are u experiencing with the current setup? Solve the problem, just don't throw money at an overkill solution.

 

try stock brakes for a while, see if it's a problem.

 

To be blunt, you are asking for something that is unrealistic from a brake system. Everything fades if you drive fast and/or hard enough. Everything. If it never fades, you have too much brake & are carrying extra weight. If it works great on track, it won't work well on the street. eg it won't work well cold & it will make some noise/dust.

I would recommend that you keep your stock system (calipers/rotors) right now. Make sure you have some decent fluid & the rest of the system is working well.

Get yourself some good race pads for the track. (Since I sell Cobalts, I will use them as an example) Go with Spec B or even the more agressive Spec VR up front.

In the rear, you could stay oem, GT Sports or Spec C (listed in order of greater friction/fade resistance). Which pad works best for you will depend on your driving style, car setup & pad choice for the front.

VR front & Spec C rear will stop a lot of car, even high horsepower.

For the street, switch out the front pads (& rotors for optimal results) & leave the rears alone.

When building a car for a race series, you gotta go by what the rules allow. By making upgrades without knowing where you are going, you could end up spending money on things that will have to be removed later - which costs more money.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mikeski38 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you run cobalt spec B pads, on stock brakes, you will never fade them unless you are running 200+ hp.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Cobalt Spec Bs and fresh fluid

 

Motul...Superblue...

 

i like brakes. i like stopping. i don't like going as much as turning or stopping. it's not that i'm fading stock brakes. i'm not tracking it currently. it's in mothballs. it will be tracked soon, and in a couple years it will be K-swapped, probably turbo or sweet all-motor, and my g/f will track it also. it needs to be bullet-proof and i'd rather splurge and get more brakes than it needs than not enough. i don't want to buy them twice, and i have a good opportunity coming up.

 

If you stick with stock rotors and calipers, you could still buy something else in the future and still wouldn't be "buying them twice." The street car aftermarket has totally confused people about what they need on their cars and I'm afraid that you're a victim of marketing and peer pressure.

K

 

If you want the bling factor, then by all means spend the money.

If you want to follow the advice of those that race, then get pads.

 

well, ITR-sized brakes sound good too. i don't particularly like the idea of stock-sized brakes with nice pads. in particular, i need to replace a caliper that is starting to bind a little, and my policy is if i have to replace something, i'll upgrade it. my idea is that with larger brakes, i can run a lower temp. pad and save myself the headaches of changing pads. i use the car hard on country backroads, so being able to stop very well on the street appeals to me as well. maybe ITRs front and rear and Ultimates or Hawk Sports all the way around with stainless lines? i priced out ITR-sized brakes and seriously it's only like $250 to scrounge up the parts, all new parts except rear calipers.

 

Seems pretty clear what you want to do. So do it. Just don't expect everyone to agree with your rationalization for doing so.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5 EH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Motul...Superblue...</TD></TR></TABLE>
While this is likely to start a flame, I'd say that trick fluid is secondary to fresh fluid. I just use the Castrol stuff they sell at the Kragen down the street. Never had any fade problems. I'll grant you, I'm not winning races, either, but I am having a hell of a lot of fun with my car on the tracks I've run without a fluid issue ever.

 

Trick fluid??... The only thing Trick about it is the boiling point, its race fluid... He said he didn't want fade.... and as far as fresh fluid goes that falls under basic maintence and track preperation.

Whats the dry boiling point on that standard Castrol stuff?

 

Hey, don't get your panties in a bunch. No point in arguing that Castrol from Pep Boy is better than Motul Superblue. It surely does have higher dry boiling point than the Castrol stuff. Hey, it might even have a better wet boiling point and better resistance to oxidation for all i know.

My point is, this guy needs new fluid and regular fluid flushes more than he needs a $12/pint can of blue ***** erector that he probably has to mail order or drive 20 miles to get. He's not even listening to the common wisdom of this thread about the most appropriate brakes to run on HIS DAILY DRIVEN CAR. Why get him all worked up over fluids. Race fluids like Superblue (which was not DOT legal last time i looked) sacrifice resistance to water absorption for stratospheric boiling points. They can, because no race team worth a **** would ever think of leaving the same fluid in the car for a year or longer. This guy's taking about a street car that'll random see track duty with he & his girl friend driving. Is this likely to be a car that gets the kind of proper attention to detail that a race team who really NEEDS Superblue would provide. I doubt it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95lstegman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my idea is that with larger brakes, i can run a lower temp. pad and save myself the headaches of changing pads. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Changing front pads is not the big of a deal. When I was driving my car to and from the track I would swap pads and rotor. (even tho the spec B did stop me just fine on the street)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95lstegman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I use the car hard on country backroads, so being able to stop very well on the street appeals to me as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Please don't tell us that here.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95lstegman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> maybe ITRs front and rear and Ultimates or Hawk Sports all the way around with stainless lines? i priced out ITR-sized brakes and seriously it's only like $250 to scrounge up the parts, all new parts except rear calipers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Unless you have some crazy sized rotors (and ducting) your going to generate heat faster than you get rid of it. The Axis ultimate will charcoal if your using your brakes at all and the hawks aren't much better. They might be ok for your first few track day but they will not hold up to a "track car". I have tried all the pads you mentioned. I even tried the GT sports before I realized they make race pads for a reason. Once I stepped up to the plate and put some spec B' on my car I stopped have brake fade. You will not be able to find a brake pad that you can track (at any reasonable rate) and street, that are quite and wont eat rotors.

and IF you can get the spec b's to fade you might need brake ducts or step up to the VR's .

BTW that reminds me, I think I need another set of fads and rotor....

 

I was just suprised by your argument, to each his own.


ARRANGED BY DRY BOILING POINT:
DRY:401F -- WET:284F --- DOT3 MINIMUM
DRY:446F -- WET:311F --- DOT4 MINIMUM
DRY:500F -- WET:356F --- DOT5 MINIMUM
DRY:502F -- WET:343F --- VALVOLINE SYNPOWER
DRY:509F -- WET:365F --- MOTUL 5.1
DRY:527F -- WET:302F --- AP RACING 551
DRY:536F -- WET:392F --- ATE SUPERBLUE/TYP200
DRY:590F -- WET:410F --- AP RACING 600
DRY:590F -- WET:518F --- CASTROL SRF
DRY:593F -- WET:420F --- MOTUL RBF600
DRY:610F -- WET:421F --- NEO-SYNTHETIC SUPER DOT 610
DRY:620F -- WET:425F --- COBALT SUPER XRF

ARRANGED BY WET BOILING POINT:

DRY:401F -- WET:284F --- DOT3 MINIMUM
DRY:527F -- WET:302F --- AP RACING 551
DRY:446F -- WET:311F --- DOT4 MINIMUM
DRY:502F -- WET:343F --- VALVOLINE SYNPOWER
DRY:500F -- WET:356F --- DOT5 MINIMUM
DRY:509F -- WET:365F --- MOTUL 5.1
DRY:536F -- WET:392F --- ATE SUPERBLUE/TYP200
DRY:590F -- WET:410F --- AP RACING 600
DRY:593F -- WET:420F --- MOTUL RBF600
DRY:610F -- WET:421F --- NEO-SYNTHETIC SUPER DOT 610
DRY:620F -- WET:425F --- COBALT SUPER XRF
DRY:590F -- WET:518F --- CASTROL SRF

 

Ok, so I got you on 3 degrees for dry, ( )
and you got me on 98 degrees for wet ( eww, sounds like a boy band)
-wich shouldn't matter because your using *fresh* fluid so water absorption isn't an issue....riiiiight.

Chris, who wins by 3 degrees jk

 

Now the question is will you pay double for Motul?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5 EH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">-wich shouldn't matter because your using *fresh* fluid so water absorption isn't an issue....riiiiight.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uh.. your suppose to flush your system? I think I flush my system once a year if that.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5 EH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now the question is will you pay double for Motul?</TD></TR></TABLE>

How much do you pay for the motul? its not that expencive.. is it? about $7-$8 for 500mL