ok after some research i would like to get some of your feedback or clarification.

i will be building my h22 and am interested in running type s pistons. i was curious if i ran an h23 crank(balanced, because after reading the h23 crank seems to be notorious in contributing to spun bearings) with h23 rods and type s pistons in my h22 would work. my head will be accompanied with jun cams and some head work, i know milling is not a good idea if i mill too much.

my research shows that the h23 rods are ever so slightly longer than the h22 rods. so is valve clearances going be an issue?

another thing i was curious about was what the differences between the f22/h23 crank and the h22 crank is. from what i have read the cranks should be the same and are interchangeable but i would have to get the proper rods to accompany the rods, basically im asking why?


cliff notes: will h23 crank and rods with type s pistons work in an h22 with jun head. and what is my max in milling to get as much compression yet be clear of valve clearances.

 

I was under the impression that the H22 and the H23 have the same deck height. If that's true, then the H22 rods should be the longer of the two.

 

as far as i know from reading deck heights are same. but rods for the h23 is longer than the h22.

 

H23 rods are shorter:

H23 5.572 (5.570-5.580)
H22 5.633 (5.630-5.636)

With H22 pistons, H23 rods, H23 crank you will be out of the hole close to .020

F23 crank = 55mm main journal diameter, .780 rod width, 1.771 rod journal diameter.

H23 crank = 50mm main journal diameter, .935 rod width, 1.888 rod journal diameter.

They are not interchangeable

 

so you would have to compare the throw of the two cranks to see if you are going to be "out of the hole" at full extension. i don't think there's that much room stock with the H22 is there? i have to switch back to stock valves just to run my JUN cams, i couldn't imagine having any extra throw on the crank to add to that. the JUNs are crazy spec.

 

that was my main conern. i knew that milling the head wasn't much of a possibility for that reason because of the jun cams crazy specs.

i dont quite understand why would i be "out of the hole" if the rods are shorter if i went with the h23 rods. someone please clear this up for me.


and innovation thanks for the specs. i already knew about the f23 not being able to interchange as well as 98+ preludes =p.

 

the pistons will go above the deck .040(about 1mm) because of the wrist pin location on the type s piston as opposed to a h23 piston. the reason the h23 rod is shorter is to compensate for the 95mm stroke the crank has as well as the higher wrist pin location. the h22 crank has a 90mm stroke so therefore it can use a longer rod with a lower wrist pin location. what i would suggest is take it to a local machine shop and have the rods re-sized so that the pistons only come up above the deck .020(about .5mm). you'll also want to grind down the valve reliefs and make sure you clay the motor(very important). hope this helps! peace.

 

thank you very much that helps out ALOT. i had a feeling the differences were in the top and bottom of the rods. this is almost like pirate mcfreeds dilemma where he did the f23 block with the h23 head. as seen here=> https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1046336


as far as how much above the hole it protrudes, that's always something to watch out for. even if it is .20 or .40. i guess what my next problem is which would be more affordable yet safer route.

considering i did the h23 crank rods and type s pistons, i would have to get my combustion chambers grounded/or maybe valve reliefs grounded depending on which ever touches the head (i don't actually have the type s pistons on hand or a picture of it so i cant really tell) not only that but the h23 crank would have to be balanced.

cons:
h23 crank does not come factory balances, causes spun bearings.
with h23 setup i would have to send head in to have either valve reliefs or combustion chamber grounded down. more money invested?

pros: higher compression???

so lets say i decide to take another route and find h22a4 rods for a cheap price. all i would need to do is get everything balanced and the wrist pins pressed in and i should be good to go.

cons:???

pros:i will be able to run type s pistons, h22a4 rods will accept h22 crank which is user friendly and not as prone to spun bearings.

btw:regardless i still plan on have bottom end balanced.


thoughts, comments, and suggestions are greatly appreciated. enlighten me.

 

3.750/2 + 5.572 + 1.221 = 8.663

8.663 - 8.643 = .020 out of the hole

H22 crank = 90.7mm/3.570, 50mm main journals, .935 width rod
H23 crank = 95mm/3.740, 50mm main journals, .935 width rod
F22 crank = 95mm/3.740, 50mm main journals, .935 width rod

The F22 and H23 crank/rods are the same, they share the same part numbers from Honda.

H22 5.633 (5.630-5.636)
H23 5.572 (5.570-5.580)
F22 5.572 (5.570-5.580)

To keep it simple just use the H22 crank, find some H22A4 rods and a set of Type S pistons. There are several people that have made 230+WHP with that or less on the H22 bottom end.

 

talk to jeff at import builders about using type s pistons with h23 crank... im in the process of getting this done by him...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Innovation &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3.750/2 + 5.572 + 1.221 = 8.663

8.663 - 8.643 = .020 out of the hole

H22 crank = 90.7mm/3.570, 50mm main journals, .935 width rod
H23 crank = 95mm/3.740, 50mm main journals, .935 width rod
F22 crank = 95mm/3.740, 50mm main journals, .935 width rod

The F22 and H23 crank/rods are the same, they share the same part numbers from Honda.

H22 5.633 (5.630-5.636)
H23 5.572 (5.570-5.580)
F22 5.572 (5.570-5.580)

</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is correct.

IMO, Use the h23 rods and crank and modify the type s pistons to fit the deck height.

 

i am using the h23 block w/f23 crank.i turned the mains down from 55 to 50mm.and i am using the pistons from my all motor h22 set up.my piston sticks out .042 above deck.i recessed the quench area on the head and made the difference up there.the compression now is 14:5:1 ....should be pretty interesting when i go to get it tuned in a couple of weeks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1700anddroping &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i am using the h23 block w/f23 crank.i turned the mains down from 55 to 50mm.and i am using the pistons from my all motor h22 set up.my piston sticks out .042 above deck.i recessed the quench area on the head and made the difference up there.the compression now is 14:5:1 ....should be pretty interesting when i go to get it tuned in a couple of weeks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why did you do that? .042" above the deck sounds like an oversight to me... you should have milled the head .040" to minimize combustion chamber cc's and used a lighter piston with the correct compression height instead to run that compression.

 

wow thats some crazy compression. what pistons are you using?

but i think i'll be going out and using the h23 crank and rod's any more i found a cheap set of h22a4 rods and the pistons are next on my list. the guy with the h23 rods and pistons didn't sell them to me.

but on the brighter side this will be good info for those who might consider the h23 route.

and also after weighing the differences i opted the h22 crank route up there ^^

 

this is what i had laying around...so i made it work cheap horse power..till my deck plated set up is done.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1700anddroping &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this is what i had laying around...so i made it work cheap horse power..till my deck plated set up is done.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hillbilly mechanic...LOL. Just kidding man.

 

the f23 crank is way lighter than the h22 crank or h23 crank..check it out.i also lightened the pistons by shaving some of the dome off.they were 8.62 i took them down to 5.60...everything works perfect.

2point6= if i took it off the head,i would be playing w/my ptvc and raising the compression even more.i still have plenty of ptvc with the way it is right now.the motor is only going to 7k.if i was going any higher then i would just use a thicker head gasket.

 

well when this motor is said and done....it will put out more tq than most fully built b series.....i am looking for close to 200....may not get that much,but it will be close.


the guys at the track don't like when you can take a beater and throw something together and mid 7's in an 1/8...they always seem to think your spraying.but i do have a pro race fogger set up that will be in the mix also.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1700anddroping &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the f23 crank is way lighter than the h22 crank or h23 crank..check it out.i also lightened the pistons by shaving some of the dome off.they were 8.62 i took them down to 5.60...everything works perfect.

2point6= if i took it off the head,i would be playing w/my ptvc and raising the compression even more.i still have plenty of ptvc with the way it is right now.the motor is only going to 7k.if i was going any higher then i would just use a thicker head gasket.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am not making fun of your set-up in anyway. Your set-up is obviously very unique, but I personally would have done it different. Good luck with it. I am sure you will get some decent results.

I do have 1 question though... how far down in the hole is your top ring?


Modified by 2point6 at 1:04 PM 5/8/2005

 

if i didn't already have this stuff laying around.i would have done it the right way.plus i like trying different things.


what was the compression in the h22 accord in your sig. also weight.very impressive for and accord.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1700anddroping &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i am using the h23 block w/f23 crank.i turned the mains down from 55 to 50mm.and i am using the pistons from my all motor h22 set up.my piston sticks out .042 above deck.i recessed the quench area on the head and made the difference up there.the compression now is 14:5:1 ....should be pretty interesting when i go to get it tuned in a couple of weeks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What rods are you using? whats the compression height on the pistons you are using?

 

good ole innovation.well think about it and i am sure you will figure it out.


f23 rods w/stock c/h h22 piston but forged.bore 89 mm

 

11.8/1 comp. 2550 lbs.

 

shot penned the f23 rods,for a little reinforcement.

 

Ok, by my calculations Ive determined that you are using the F23 crank and rods and a off the shelf 1.220 compression height forged H22 piston...

The rod is actually more like 5.551 and you should be out of the hole about .038. It can be done but I dont know why anyone would want to...

Just gonna be something youll need to clay and keep a very close eye on...