Hey everyone,

I'm new to HT, but I've been racing SCCA (Solo2) for almost six years now. My daily driven civic competes in the E-Prep class due to weight reduction and a hot cam modification. The chassis has almost 250,000 hard miles on it and the chassis is starting to let me know that. I would very much like to foam the chassis to increase stiffness and reduce noise, but the car won't be my daily driver forever, it will become a track car in the next few years.

My question is: What classes in both SCCA club racing and NASA Honda cup will chassis foam exclude me from?

I want to get this clear now because foam is pretty much a permanent mod, and I know first hand how much it sucks to be bumped a class for a small technicality (My carbon hood bumped me out of STS, now I run EP on STREET TIRES!).

Thanks for any help.

 

Just a suggestion:
IF you do foam the chassis buy a bunch of contractor trash bags put them in place and then fill them with foam... This will allow you to remove the foam later if you choose to.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SGVridgerunner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My question is: What classes in both SCCA club racing and NASA Honda Challenge will chassis foam exclude me from? </TD></TR></TABLE>

you should look into the classes and read the rules for both.. that will help you prepare the car the best..

If I read Honda Challenge rules right.. first this is

1. Introduction
If these rules do not expressly state a modification is allowed, it is prohibited.

and I can't find anything that says that mod is allowed

 

What is "foaming" the chassis?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jisu009 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is "foaming" the chassis?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe this will help http://www.sportcompactcarweb....300zx/

 

Interesting concept. I wonder if it would offer any benefit to a fully caged car though. I also don't like the bit about it being "impervious to all known solvents and cleaners." If the plastic bag idea would work (as in, not melt upon foam contact), and if you could wiggle the mass out, that seems like it'd be ok. Although I wonder if the foam bonding to the structure it's in is part of the added rigidity...

 

Illegal in any SCCA road racing class that I know.

To work, it would have to bond to the sheetmetal so the trashbag idea is a non-starter. Frankly, this is like chemical strut bars: You can tell your friends about it but I'll bet you lunch that the increase in weight will offset any miniscule increase in performance from stiffness.

I foamed the rear seat area side panels of my Mazda 25 years ago to seal out dust and get rid of the boom behind my new groovy Jensen Triax speakers. I didn't notice that it was any faster on the track.

K

 

That weight was also an issue. I think the SCC guys used 2lbs/sq.ft? That's not exactly light.

 

I have no experience with it myself but spoke with an engineer with a car manufacturer who used to be pretty involved in SCCA Showroom Stock racing many years ago. He said that they regularly foamed the rockers and any possible frame rail areas to add additional stiffness.

Although unquestionably illegal, he sounded like this was not an uncommon thing in some inner circles and was at least beneficial enough to try to get away with it. I read the article in Sport Compact when it came out and saw that it appeared to be enough trouble that I lost interest in ever trying it.

 

Sounds like it could be virtually unde'tech'table...therefore its legal!

In a well caged car, certainly not worth the weight. In an ungcaged car, sounds kinda cool.

 

Thanks for all the help guys.

A cage is not an option right now, I need a daily driver for the next couple of years as I save up for a new car. When I jack the car up on its front jacking point, the passenger's side sits over 1.5 inches lower than the driver's side.

I like to play by the rules though, so trying to get away with it just isn't me. Maybe I'll make it a speed trial car and look at something cheaper for competition (it is the US Si chassis = heavy).

Thanks again

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That weight was also an issue. I think the SCC guys used 2lbs/sq.ft? That's not exactly light.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah but they were putting it on a 300ZX, which is like 300 lbs lighter than oh I dunno, an M1A1.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Accord94DX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah but they were putting it on a 300ZX, which is like 300 lbs lighter than oh I dunno, an M1A1. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Haha. That is pretty funny!

 

The spoon endurance cars both the accord and the fit run extensive chemical bonding and pillar foam

It's been used for some time by car manufacturers to reduce chasis movement and dampend road noise

Anyone whose got the new escalade can see it comming out in the rear seat mounting locations and it shows in the excellent ride quality of the new ones

Since it's so cheap and effective many cars are going towards this more and more

and when you think about it even the most dense foam which is 10lbs per cubic foot will only add 40 pounds to do an entire car and if you under weight it's certainly going to help

although it is illegal I'm sure many people still do it.

 

There's only 4 cubic feet of fillable space in a random car? Maybe I'm thinking of it wrong, but that seems like too little.

 

to a fellow ep'er
the foam would fall under 17.2.b
chassis and frame can be "reinforced"

you just turned on a light bulb in my head

thanks

well i'm slow,forgot the important part of asking about roadracing


Modified by shakedown94 at 6:06 PM 4/20/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There's only 4 cubic feet of fillable space in a random car? Maybe I'm thinking of it wrong, but that seems like too little.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you can get crazy and weld some places shut but this stuff expands so it will only fill closed areas very well. There's is maybe a cubic foot in each sil anywhere else like the wiper area, what little of frame rails there are ect will have to be very minimum and planned well.

even for the 300zx they only used 5 cubic feat


Modified by stormy at 8:50 PM 4/20/2005

 

Two thoughts:

1: Is this stuff flammable? If it is, there is absolutely no way I would want any of it in my racecar, and neither would the tech inspectors too much.

2: If it made a difference, I am sure I would have seen it in at least ONE professionally built race car. And I have seen (and teched (CASC, FIA, SCCA ...)) a LOT of different classes/levels.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shakedown94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> to a fellow ep'er
the foam would fall under 17.2.b
chassis and frame can be "reinforced"
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Okay, I give up: where the hell did you find rule 17.2b? I looked in '05 NASA CCR. 05 Honda Challenge and 05 SCCA GCR....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MightyMouseTech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Two thoughts:

1: Is this stuff flammable? If it is, there is absolutely no way I would want any of it in my racecar, and neither would the tech inspectors too much.

2: If it made a difference, I am sure I would have seen it in at least ONE professionally built race car. And I have seen (and teched (CASC, FIA, SCCA ...)) a LOT of different classes/levels.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the foam padding on your seat is flamable

when your done being a drama queen

read the link

http://www.sportcompactcarweb....300zx/

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shakedown94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> to a fellow ep'er
the foam would fall under 17.2.b
chassis and frame can be "reinforced"

you just turned on a light bulb in my head</TD></TR></TABLE>

There's a lot of grey area there, I guess I could get away with it?! I've talked with other Prep racers and they say that only applies to cages and tie bars, no seam welding. I never brought up the foam though. Solo2 Prep is much different than IT though, I may just do it and leave it as a solo2 EP/spare steet car.

I just find it ridiculous that it's "illegal" to restore a 13 year old chassis. It's called competition, we should be allowed to make the CHASSIS as stiff as we want. I raced SAE formula and baja for four years, and no production car chassis could ever match the stiffness of those. Not restoring an old chassis puts you at a disadvantage to those who can afford a newer car. I thought grassroots racing focused on skill, not budget.

Sorry for the ranting, but I'm sure you guys have complaints about silly rules too. I'm going to do it. I'll post a thread on the install and results when it's done.

 

I would agree with your premise however 13 y/o non foamed cars are still whooping up on much newer cars in many different classes.

 

Disagreeing with a rule is OK, lobbying to change it is OK, disregarding it because you have a better plan is not. If you want to proceed with your better idea, start your own organization and write your own rules.

That's what NASA did. If your way is better, they will come....

 

*coughHondaCupcough*

 

It's like chemical seam welding.

Basicaly i am still confused on where on the unibody (eg/dc2 for example) this could go....between the 1/4 pannels and the interior wall, and around the fire wall seams froe and aft mabey....anywhere else?