I just watched the tape today, and is it just me or is it really sad, that a pro series has to run with the GTA in fact I think it was 13 or 14 of the cars were GTA, great battle for the lead, but is this really a series that Cart should be promoting? It was a great series but it looks to be dead. Comments???

 

Trans-Am *used* to be my favorite racing series period. It is one of the oldest series in the US and featured some great battles between some truly great drivers in the past. I remember just craving those onboard shots where you could hear all that V8 power and hear all those cool gear noises...up and down the gears...good stuff! I would crank the tv up so loud and get goose bumps in the process.

I have to agree that the series is nearly dead. The races are pretty boring and the depth of talent is just not there. I mean do we need a special hotshoe guest driver in a Rocketsports car each race to make it interesting? Bah! I hope that somehow they can get that series back on track before it goes by the wayside.

I hope that someday they make it back to VIR also. One of the sweetest sounds you could ever hear is... Standing at the top of Roller Coaster and hearing one of those cars come all the way down the backstraight from Oak Tree...go down through the gears...and literally explode over the top of Roller Coaster and head down into Hogpen.

 

Although its great to see the old guys out, I think some youth would really help the series. The cars are American and V8's have cool styling, and of course legendary races and drivers it seems like a no-brainer to have a good series but unfortantly it has not worked.

 

The series is dying because first of Panoz's poor decisions when he owned the series, and then compounded dramatically by Gentilozzi's ego when he took over.

 

The legal battle for the "Trans Am" name didn't help either.

 

You can tell someone's intelligence by the degree to which they agree with you. Sean is right on, again.

This is a PERFECT example of what is wrong with road racing in the US. A handful of rich guys make decisions based on (a) their image of how things "should be," and (b) what gives them an andvantage. The result is a class or series that makes no sense.

Contrast this with the NASCAR Southwest Tour race at Sears Pt. (Infinidiot, or Infinodon, or whatever it is now), where they have HUGE fields of good racing of cars in the same kind of performance envelope as TA cars.

TransAm could be brought back to life in two years if SCCA simply adopted the NASCAR late model short track rules, whole-cloth. Cars are cheap, there are engine builders in every state of the union, parts like rear ends benefit from economies of scale, [i]and you can race them for money any Saturday night, from the Florida Keys to Monroe, WA.

K

 

It was a sad state of affairs for Trans-Am at Long Beach. Even Atlantic looked good by comparison. I couldn't help thinking how much better a SPEED GT/Touring race would have been for the fans in attendance and the SoCal demographic in general.

 

I think the Speed World Challenge is what Trans-Am used to be in the '70s. Big name drivers, some from F1 and Le Mans. The cars look pretty realistic compared to the current Trans-Am "funny cars". They even have big bore and small bore classes. I wish I had been around to see the 510s, GTAs and 2002s duking it out and nipping at the heels of the Mustangs, Camaros and Javelins. For someone my age, these will be the good 'ol days.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
TransAm could be brought back to life in two years if SCCA simply adopted the NASCAR late model short track rules, whole-cloth. Cars are cheap, there are engine builders in every state of the union, parts like rear ends benefit from economies of scale, [i]and you can race them for money any Saturday night, from the Florida Keys to Monroe, WA.

K</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with you on this one! Kinda like the Trucks here in So Cal... both NASA and SCCA have a number that run and there another 40 of them at Irwindale Speedway every Saturday night.

 

I'm with Type_RS_59. Speed WC has so much more appeal - cars that I recognize, drivers with whom I have shared the track, good racing, etc. A good mix of long-time drivers (Cunningham, etc) and new faces (Herr, etc).

I don't recognize the Trans Am cars - they all look very similar. The only drivers I recognize are guys like Boris Said who do a little of everything.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can tell someone's intelligence by the degree to which they agree with you. Sean is right on, again.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Be careful, saying that is a bannable offense at most Champ Car forums.

 

I can say that cost has been a growing factor in T/A's demise.
Back in the good old days the series had big manufacturer support, then they all left when the budget ran out. This left the series where it is now, expensive as hell, the cars are highly developed, fast and it requires too much money to be competitive.
WC GT is where TA was 10 years ago, big money, support, big name drivers.
Maybe WC can hold on to the OEM's interest, if not..... T/A x2.
WC is going EXACTLY where TA did, the costs are getting insane, OEM money and development is everywhere, once the bean counters figure they got their money's worth in advertising and pull out, whats left behind?
Anyway, I *AM* biased, but I think a TA car is one of the coolest looking, sounding race cars out there, I love working on them, and being around them, and watching them race.
I am happy Randy won LB, he deserved it after many many starts, I worked with that team last year (and may this year as well) and I was happy for them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pmachan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WC is going EXACTLY where TA did, the costs are getting insane, OEM money and development is everywhere, once the bean counters figure they got their money's worth in advertising and pull out, whats left behind? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactamundo!

WC GT and Touring both need to pay attention to this. Costs are starting to get to that critical point where the series could collapse. Touring is already starting to see its fields noticably shrink. They need to take a page out of BTCC's book and dial things back a lot if they want the series to stay strong.

 

A good example of the popularity of TA (Trans-Am) vs. WC (World Challenge) can be found at the SCCA's own message board.

http://bbs.sccaproracing.com/c...b.cgi

Look at how many posts the WC forum has. The TA forum was dropped all together a couple of years ago due to lack of interest. If nothing else, it says something about the actual demographics that are interested in each series. I love the Speed Channel's coverage but at this point I think they may actually be holding the WC series back a little due to the fact that it cannot be shown anywhere else and they put it on TV at odd times and vs. bigger races like Nascar.

I also think they have let the WC cars get too close to race cars. The racing was no better or worse 2, 5 or 10 years ago. All the rules changes have done is raise costs and lower lap times. I've heard from an owner/driver that a competetive BMW Touring Car engine costs upwards of 30 grand. I don't care if the cars are lapping 30 seconds slower as long as they are still side by side and/or sliding around. I say put them back on street tires.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Type_RS_59 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I also think they have let the WC cars get too close to race cars. The racing was no better or worse 2, 5 or 10 years ago. All the rules changes have done is raise costs and lower lap times. I've heard from an owner/driver that a competetive BMW Touring Car engine costs upwards of 30 grand. I don't care if the cars are lapping 30 seconds slower as long as they are still side by side and/or sliding around. I say put them back on street tires.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Street tires would slow the cars down but it wouldn't lower costs. They need to dial back the engine spec and disallow suspension point relocation to start. And they need to stop ridiculous crap like allowing the Mazda 6 to run a sequential gearbox. Supposedly they did this because the stock trannies weren't able to hold up with the power they're making. I say if you reduce the engine power across the board you won't have this problem.

You're right on the money though, making the cars slower is not going to turn fans off. But only having 10 or 12 cars racing will.

 

Long Beach was my cousin's last Trans-Am race, probably ever.

He's been running as a privateer for years and in the last three years alone I've heard nothing but how Trans-Am is a joke from him. He could run WC if he wanted, but as someone alluded to early, the same thing will happen to WC that is happening/happened to Trans-Am.

Oh well. At least Max said I can use his old Riley-Scott Camaro to get my SCCA comp license when I'm ready.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JMU R1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
they need to stop ridiculous crap like allowing the Mazda 6 to run a sequential gearbox. Supposedly they did this because the stock trannies weren't able to hold up with the power they're making. </TD></TR></TABLE>
where did you get this info? The last time I checked it was still H-pattern shifter.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You're right on the money though, making the cars slower is not going to turn fans off. But only having 10 or 12 cars racing will.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree with this. Making the car slower will turn fans off. The regular joe-blow that ran his car faster in HPDE will look down and think they can do better!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where did you get this info? The last time I checked it was still H-pattern shifter.</TD></TR></TABLE>

http://www.world-challenge.com...1.pdf

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I disagree with this. Making the car slower will turn fans off. The regular joe-blow that ran his car faster in HPDE will look down and think they can do better!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not talking about making them showroom stock slow, I'm talking about dialing them back by 3- 5 econds a lap. Do you think that seeing 10 or 12 uber fast WC cars is going to be more appealing that seeing 40 cars dicing it up that are a bit slower? Do you think a fan at the race would say, "You know, these cars suck. They should be at least 2 seconds a lap faster..." My guess is no. To most observers 3 to 5 seconds is not even going to be discernible without a direct frame of comparison. Hell, even 2 years ago the fast lap at Road Atlanta was 5 seconds slower than it was last weekend!

I'm not entirely sure how much slower the cars would be with stock suspension points and if the engine spec was more around 230 hp (currently rumored 280+ at the front, if anyone knows do tell) . But I do know that unless WC gets a lot more sponsors in the next year or so you're going to see more teams dropping out.

 

I don't know. I think they are where they should be. Last year the pole for Sears is 1:47s. I turned in 1:54s in the same config. And that was in the debut of my car without prior tuning. I think I can get to high 1:52s. with tuning time


Modified by Andrie at 2:24 PM 4/21/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know. I think they are where they should be. Last year the pole for Sears is 1:49s. I turned in 1:54s in the same config. And that was in the debut of my car without prior tuning. I think I can get to high 1:52s. with tuning time</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ah good point of comparison

Its not so much I think they're too fast, I just think they're too expensive right now. Maybe its just that Realtime, Tripoint, and Turner are spending cubic boatloads of money (more than everyone else) for tenths of a second but its kind of alarming that its costing $150k+ to build a front running car. Add in all the travel and damage costs and it gets silly. I'm not sure how much some of these teams are getting from sponsorship but I get the feeling its not enough. Then again isn't that always the story with racing?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carl_aka_carlos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Long Beach was my cousin's last Trans-Am race, probably ever.

He's been running as a privateer for years and in the last three years alone I've heard nothing but how Trans-Am is a joke from him. He could run WC if he wanted, but as someone alluded to early, the same thing will happen to WC that is happening/happened to Trans-Am.

Oh well. At least Max said I can use his old Riley-Scott Camaro to get my SCCA comp license when I'm ready. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats too bad, he hasn't had much luck since he switched to the Vette.
What he is gonna do now?
Take him up on the car for your school! You sure won't forget it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JMU R1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Street tires would slow the cars down but it wouldn't lower costs. They need to dial back the engine spec and disallow suspension point relocation to start. And they need to stop ridiculous crap like allowing the Mazda 6 to run a sequential gearbox. Supposedly they did this because the stock trannies weren't able to hold up with the power they're making. I say if you reduce the engine power across the board you won't have this problem.

You're right on the money though, making the cars slower is not going to turn fans off. But only having 10 or 12 cars racing will.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think Cadillac used the same excuse for having a sequential box but after the "CTS-V" (term used loosely) dominated at Sebring, they had to remove it. I still think the allowances they gave that car are a joke.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sean O’Gorman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think Cadillac used the same excuse for having a sequential box but after the "CTS-V" (term used loosely) dominated at Sebring, they had to remove it. I still think the allowances they gave that car are a joke. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah the CTS-V's spec sheet was utterly ridiculous. Especially considering how the PTG M3's got screwed over with somewhat unfair comp adjustments.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know. I think they are where they should be. Last year the pole for Sears is 1:47s. I turned in 1:54s in the same config. And that was in the debut of my car without prior tuning. I think I can get to high 1:52s. with tuning time</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're making the argument even better for slowing them down. Then it won't cost hundreds of thousands to run in WC, and maybe some privateers (the ones who will be holding up ther series when the OEM's drop out) will be able to come out and play again. I think more people were fans of the Roger Foo's than the hired OEM guns that are out there now.

Honestly, the majority of fans aren't paying attention to lap times as compared to other series, or HPDE'ers. They are only looking at the split times between the racers out there on the track. I honestly could care less if they slow down by 5 seconds a lap, if it means good racing and lots of cars out there I'm all for it.

 

Good point about Roger Foo. People really miss seeing a competetive Honda privateer. He gave it up a couple years ago because it just got too expensive. I'll never forget watching him and David Leslie in the 626 leading in the rain at Lime Rock. It doesn't help when paid drivers in factory rides think nothing of punting the privateers into the wall to gain a position, see Mosport 2002. If you look at what's going on this season, the top two BMW teams, responsible for 3 of the top 4 drivers in Touring Car points last year, Turner and TecMark, are only running partial schedules this year. The top 4 drivers in points are not going to have a chance at the championship this year. Granted, Turner is also running 3 cars in the full Grand Am Cup schedule, but TecMark just didn't have the money or sponsorship two fund two top drivers this year. They only found enough to run Jonsson for 5 races and the car that Sofronas drove to 4th in points is being rented out to a paying driver to defray the costs. I agree with JMU R1 about bringing the cars back in regards to the suspension pick-up points, horsepower, and tires. What was wrong with the rules in 2002. They are getting closer and closer to the European type Touring Cars and history shows that the US will not support a series like that. The Super Touring series only lasted 2 years here, had very few cars and only one maunufacturer. Would anybody care to find a lap time comparison between those cars and the current WC Touring cars? Maybe from Laguna Seca?