hey guys, Im currious what Advancing your timming do? I know it alows you to run 93. and Im assuming it makes more power.

But what EXACTLY is going on internaly???

 

bumpizle

 

changing th e power band

 

k, so If I advance it, more power lower in the band??? retard, more power in the higher RPMS?

 

It advances the position during the compression/detonation cycles where the spark plug fires. Since higher octane gas has a slower (IIRC) flame front, advancing the timing lets you make more power off of the higher octane. Running 93 in an engine designed for 87 will actually make you lose power, unless you advance the timing to compensate. If the slower flame front is still expanding after the piston has reached the bottom of the detonation stage, you're losing tons of power because the explosion is still expanding while the piston is compressing it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xthephilx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It advances the position during the compression/detonation cycles where the spark plug fires. Since higher octane gas has a slower (IIRC) flame front, advancing the timing lets you make more power off of the higher octane. Running 93 in an engine designed for 87 will actually make you lose power, unless you advance the timing to compensate. If the slower flame front is still expanding after the piston has reached the bottom of the detonation stage, you're losing tons of power because the explosion is still expanding while the piston is compressing it.</TD></TR></TABLE>


ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh alright, You make alot more sense. Another question. If I get aftermarket Ignition. MSD for example. Can I run more advancment then stock Dizzy will alow to get more power? or is there a limit?

I read somewhere the MSD SCI has 26 degrees of ignition after? I dont quite understand what that means. but Im guessing it keep firing that spark plug till 26 Degrees after ignition?

 

Haven't used an aftermarket ignition, but from what I can tell all they do is create a more intense spark to ensure more complete fuel burn. Some also have multiple sparks which presumably would also help burn all of the fuel mixture.

Not sure about this completely though. I'm sure searching would cover it better.

 

I was gonna do this but wasn't sure of what side to turn the dizzy...
Is towards the cabin advancing? towards bumper retarding? And how many degrees is when you turn it all the way?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xthephilx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It advances the position during the compression/detonation cycles where the spark plug fires. Since higher octane gas has a slower (IIRC) flame front, advancing the timing lets you make more power off of the higher octane. Running 93 in an engine designed for 87 will actually make you lose power, unless you advance the timing to compensate. If the slower flame front is still expanding after the piston has reached the bottom of the detonation stage, you're losing tons of power because the explosion is still expanding while the piston is compressing it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

to add to that.....

it allows burning of fuel to start sooner in the crankshaft rotation. The more degrees of crankshaft rotation (in the power stroke) that you apply the "pressure" of combustion, the more power you make.

 

Quote, originally posted by xthephilx »
It advances the position during the compression/detonation cycles where the spark plug fires. Since higher octane gas has a slower (IIRC) flame front, advancing the timing lets you make more power off of the higher octane. Running 93 in an engine designed for 87 will actually make you lose power, unless you advance the timing to compensate. If the slower flame front is still expanding after the piston has reached the bottom of the detonation stage, you're losing tons of power because the explosion is still expanding while the piston is compressing it.

to add to that it would not make you loose power because if you were still burning when its beginning the next stroke its just being pushed out. its not on the compression stroke all the valves are not closed. but you are on the exhaust stroke so valves would be open you would just be giving off alot of emissions

 

turning the Dizzy towards the cabin is retard and towards the front of the car is advance


Also to add to waht everyone said you cant just throw your dizzy on full advance because even with 93 you will still get knock from wayy to much spark advance

be careful you can blow your motor up if you dont know exactly wahts goin on

read up to waht is a safe lvl of advancement and go from there

 

Ok if you do something as simple as getting an adjustable cam gear... you need to put it on a dyno.

1st motor (185K): at 0 = 85hp
at +8 = 94.8

2nd motor (fresh bottom end broken in, 90k on the top): at 0 92.3hp
at 8 106.7hp


on our SOHC D16s when you advance the cam... you automatically advance ignition timing. at +8 on the cam its roughly +22 on the ignition side.

all this with a AEM CAI and 2.5 inch exhaust. Stock cam manifolds etc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by illestrolla247 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">turning the Dizzy towards the cabin is retard and towards the front of the car is advance</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's the opposite of what the factory manual says.

 

Increase in HC and NOX. Decrease in CO.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pogiTSI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey guys, Im currious what Advancing your timming do? I know it alows you to run 93. and Im assuming it makes more power.

But what EXACTLY is going on internaly???

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

How many degrees exactly is full advance/retard?

 

just so you know, there is an upper limit to how much you can advance your timing before you start blowing **** up. its not just free horsepower. you advance your timing too much and you can detonate your engine. a stock d16 is set for 18 degrees retard from the factory. so when you shoot your timing, the hash marks on your crank pulley should zero at 18 degrees behind top dead center. that should tell you something. ill leave it as an excercise to the reader as for why you dont want fuel exploding on the compression stroke of your engine. there are safe levels of advance, but if you dont know what you are doing, it might be a good idea just to leave it alone. im not sure how far you can advance your timing with a stock distributor, but i imagine it is not much more than 10-15 degrees +- 18 btdc, without an adjustable cam pulley.

 

well, you can't say exactly where it'll be at full advance, every car's different as in variances in distrobuters, whether the heads been shaved or not, and adjustible cam gears and stuff. if you could tell the timing by just where it is on the head, why would it need to be adjustible? they'd cut down on the casting work and just have it bolt in in one place. therefore, everybody's full advance would be different. still, its stupid to advance it all the way.

 

just so you know..
Honda engines run counter-clockwise and the ignition fires at
16~18 degrees of advance..
BTDC=before top dead center



If you fire the spark after the piston has passed,it won't do much...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88DXCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just so you know..
Honda engines run counter-clockwise and the ignition fires at
16~18 degrees of advance..
BTDC=before top dead center
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry, you called me on the advance bit. That is true, they do come from the factory advanced.

im just trying to warn the guy that buying an msd ignition and advancing it as far as it will go is not gonna make that much more power without some consequence. its a delicate game to play.

 

i advanced my timing since it was ******* and i always use 93 octane.

keep in mind high qualtiy spark plugs play a role in the limit before detonation occurs.

great thread.

 

yea great thread... learning something imma be using this weekend...