I'm pretty sure everyone on here is familiar w/the JDM 97-01 type-S motor.
My question is is it possible to take the engine internals (pistons, connecting rods, camshafts, cam gears, etc...) from that engine and put them in a 92-96 H22A1 or H23?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dwnsthGABOY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm pretty sure everyone on here is familiar w/the JDM 97-01 type-S motor.
My question is is it possible to take the engine internals (pistons, connecting rods, camshafts, cam gears, etc...) from that engine and put them in a 92-96 H22A1 or H23?</TD></TR></TABLE>

well it depends on what year the jdm type s is, in 97 the h series motors all still used 50mm mains, 98+ use the 55mm mains so you can't say the crank is a direct swap,

but you can definatly swap everything else over... why not just put the motor in instead of swaping it all over?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dwnsthGABOY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm pretty sure everyone on here is familiar w/the JDM 97-01 type-S motor.
My question is is it possible to take the engine internals (pistons, connecting rods, camshafts, cam gears, etc...) from that engine and put them in a 92-96 H22A1 or H23?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the parts you mentioned can be put into an H22A. There would be no reason to use the cam gears, and I don't think it would be worth buying the rods (is there any difference at all?)

the H23 has a different crank, and you would need an H22 crank.

 

Well thats just it, I'm not really sure if there is a difference in the parts or not. I would definitely swap the type s motor in if I had the money and if there was a way to put ATTS on a 4th gen prelude.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dwnsthGABOY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well thats just it, I'm not really sure if there is a difference in the parts or not. I would definitely swap the type s motor in if I had the money and if there was a way to put ATTS on a 4th gen prelude.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There were SiR S-spec blocks with the same 220hp internals of the Type-S engines, but with a regular block and LSD transmission, and they would go in as easily as any H22. They are still pretty pricey, though.

 

why not jsut get psitons, and cams and rebuild your current engine with them?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by v4lu3s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why not jsut get psitons, and cams and rebuild your current engine with them?</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's a good idea, since your tearing down the motor anyway

 

yeah I probably will rebuild the engine, but the cost of the jdm engine and to have it rebuilt almost the same price. I can get a jdm h22a motor by itself for 1250. And to have it rebuilt is about the same price, no?
If I got it rebuilt what companies should I get the pistons and rods from?

 

pauter and cp pistons, pm earl for them

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrettyLude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">pauter and cp pistons, pm earl for them</TD></TR></TABLE>

Pauter is way expensive and in most cases not necessary. Most 650 WHP and below builds can get away with a set of Scat or Eagle rods with ARP 2000 bolts.

CP seems to be the trendy piston of the moment, I like Wiseco personally. CP is good as well though.

As for getting a 98+ crank to work in a pre 98 block, its fairly simple really. Just have the main journals turned down to 50mm. Any decent crank shop can do this. Just have the journals heat treated after you have them turned down.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Innovation &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As for getting a 98+ crank to work in a pre 98 block, its fairly simple really. Just have the main journals turned down to 50mm. Any decent crank shop can do this. Just have the journals heat treated after you have them turned down.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you really think turning the crank down is a better alternative than having the mains bored out to 55mm? the 50mm cranks of honda are well know to be more prown to spinning bearings as is fairly obvious when looking at all the h23s that have spun bearings. i don't see why you wouldn't just bore the mains out of the block..

 

Simple, the way the main caps are designed is to provide a clamp load dispursed evenly. When you remove material, 2.5mm from each side you are narrowing your pressure areas.

50mm main cranks arent notorious for spinning bearings, people who dont take precautions to prevent premature bearing failure are notorious for spinning bearings.

Look at the B series motors, no problems spinning bearings there, look at the main diameters on those cranks.

A few things contribute to bearing failure:

Poor oiling, unbalanced rotating parts, detonation, torsional vibrations, etc, etc.

Take all those things into consideration when your building a motor and youll be fine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Innovation &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

50mm main cranks arent notorius for spinning bearings, people who dont take precautions to prevent premature bearing failure spin bearings. Look at the B series motors, no problems spinning bearings there, look at the main diameters on those cranks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok sorry i ment to say look at larger stroke honda motors, the h22/h23 and f22 all were at 50mm

came 97 the h23 got droped and the h22 stayed at 50mm along with the f22
come 98 the f22s are droped and add on a f23 with 97mm stroke with 55mm mains
alsoin 98 the h22 got 55mm mains.

why would honda upgrade their motors that have larger strokes with 55mm mains?

you may lose clamping distribution when going from 50 - 55 but think about the surface area you gain for the oil to ride on and hence the forces of the crank to be distributed on. you get a larger oil cusshion not to mention that by increasin the journal diameter you actually get a decrease in the speed that it takes to complete one revolutiuon around cicumfrance because it is now "a longer trip around"...i dunno, i think honda engineer did it for a reason..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why would honda upgrade their motors that have larger strokes with 55mm mains?

you may lose clamping distribution when going from 50 - 55 but think about the surface area you gain for the oil to ride on and hence the forces of the crank to be distributed on. you get a larger oil cusshion not to mention that by increasin the journal diameter you actually get a decrease in the speed that it takes to complete one revolutiuon around cicumfrance because it is now "a longer trip around"...i dunno, i think honda engineer did it for a reason.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The thing you look for in terms of an oiling surface is width. The diameter inst really too big of a factor.

The reason Honda went to a larger main is to try and make a bottom end that is less failure prone (crank movement, main stability, bearing failures, etc). BUT, your talking about an OE manufacturer here. They are not going to invest in a damper that needs to be rebuilt every so oftern (such as the ATI damper) or a fluid based damper that may or may not last more than 40K miles (such as the fluid damper)

From a manufacturers stand point an investment like that doesnt make sense.

The main reason the larger stroke motors spin bearings is because of torsional vibrations. Torsional vibrations are absorbed and cotrolled via a damper (ATI/Fludamper). If you run a damper, your bearing problems will be a thing of the past, no matter what your main journal diameter is


Modified by Innovation at 11:57 AM 4/6/2005