I want new wheels and tires! What is the perfect combo for autox/daily driving?

I want a really good wheel and tire combination that would be perfect for autocrossing and daily driving.

thanks for the help in advance guys,

aj

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerosearch


The answer is that there is none. Street tires and autocross/track tires aren't interchangeable. You can make street tires work pretty well but you won't find the "perfect" combination.

Your best bet is a 15x7 wheel with either a Falken Azenis or a Kumho Ecsta 712.

What kind of car are you driving?

 

I drive a 97 civic.

thanks again,

aj

 

IDEAL autocross combo is a 13x8 with Hoosier Autocross Radials but you aren't going to want to drive those on the street.

The 15x7 is your best bet.

 

alright, let's say that I want the 13 x 8 combo with Hoosier autocross tires, what manufacturer makes the lightest rims in that size? and how much would they cost?

thanks,

aj

 

Great budget choices:

15x7 Kosei K1's or Rotas (Circuit 8's, Slipstreams, etc)
-decently light and strong, yet affordable
with 205/50-15 Falken Azenis or Kumho 712's
-sticky and affordable

or

Great cost-no-object choices:
15x7 Volk TE-37's or SSR Competitions
-super light and strong, but expensive
with 205/50-15 Bridgestone Potenza S-03's
-super sticky, but expensive

Hope that helps,

Jon

 

thanks for the reply JonSE-R,

I think I will go with the budget choice!

thanks again,

aj

 

No prob AJ.

I have "budget" 15x7 K1's with "budget" 205/50-15 Kumho 712's on my daily driver SE-R, and have been very pleased with them. The wheels weigh less than 14 pounds each, and the tires are decently sticky and not bad in rain. Check out http://www.tirerack.com for some prices on that particular combo.

Hope that helps,

Jon

 

yea,

I just checked out their site. That's where I ordered my last set of wheels and tires. Very dependable. I will definitely do business with them again. Very good prices as well.

thanks everyone for all the help,

later and drive safe,

aj

 

Am I missing something? I have seen the 712's recommended more times since I started reading this forum than anywhere else in the last 2 years... I have driven several cars before and after 712's were installed and I was thoroughly unimpressed.

Is everyone saying they're the best thing in that particular price range? or do you really just like them overall?

 

JeffS - yes, the Kumho is great for the price. There are better street tires, but all are $130+, whereas the Kumho is $75.

ajn -
I presume from you signature that you compete in Street Mod. As this class allows all DOT stamped tires, there really is no perfect combo/dual-use tire.

For a street tire that will do ok at solo events, see the above comments.

Have you considered a set of autocross only wheels/tires? Get some 14" Honda alloys and throw on some Kumho V700s. Look around for used tires and wheels, you can probably get a setup for less than $200 if you can wait until a deal emerges. Then swap these on at the track.

Or, if the car is not your daily driver (weekend toy or whatever), you could get a 14x8 or 15x8 wheel and use a Yokohama A032R. It sticks better than the tires mentioned above. However, I could not recommend using it daily as it will wear quickly. But, it is still very streetable and I know several people that use it on their 2nd cars.

 

You can also look into PP S-03s in the 195/50-15 for $78 from tirerack.com for a great combo STS tire. But Azenis get a 9.5, 712s get a 8.75 and I think the S-03s would be in the 9s too.

 

i run the 712's and love them
but I know they are not the same thing as Aziens or S-03's and if I had a set of those tires could probably shave a second or two off my lap times, but the 712 is an excellent learning tire

 

I have not opentracked on the 712's, unless you count touring laps or taking people for rides in the beginner group. In those scenarios I found them to be decently sticky but not amazing. Even with 44 psi, the sidewalls seemed flimsy and the tires seemed to encourage a 'drive by slide' method.

To be fair, they are definitely getting better with age (I've got 10k on 'em now and they are not quite 1/2 done) and they do require more air than I initially thought (38-40# for street). And they are more than adequate in the rain. Hell, they weren't *that* bad in 4 inches of snow a few weeks ago!

However, initially I was quite disappointed... especially compared to AVS-I's. The 712's were squawky and squirmy as hell, although (again) that could definitely have been pressure-related (I first ran 'em at 33psi).

It's true, I have never driven on Azenis. But, they're first on the list when these 712's are done (hopefully by summertime).

The 712's are VERY GOOD tires, especially for the money. But, based on what I have heard from people whose opinions are a lot more qualified than mine, the Azenis is indeed the best 'bang for the buck' tire available right now in terms of absolute dry grip. What I do not know about Azenis is how long they will last, and how they do in the rain.

Hope that helps,

Jon
who is thinking about dialing in some *positive* camber and toe *in*, just to burn up these 712's so he can get Azenis

 

What do you have on the car now?

Most of us have multiple sets of wheels/tires, since street tires aren't great for the track and track tires aren't great for the street.

First off, you're new to autocrossing. I strongly suggest you stay on street tires for your first year. No, you won't likely be very competetive. But, you will learn a TON. Fancy suspension parts and sticky tires will hide your mistakes. That may sound like a great idea now, but when you think long term, it's not how you want to spend your money/time. If you're serious about this, you need to learn how to do it right, and many of us think street tires are perfect for learning.

Having said this, I *may* have a suggestion. Do another event or two to make sure you're really really hooked. Get some of those 13" rims (I think Panasport and Rota make some 13s). Get some of the new Sumitomo HTR 200 tires in 215/50/13. They are CHEAP, $40 each from Tirerack.com. Use these until there's nothing but cord hanging from them. Next year, get some Hoosiers or Kumho V700s in 13" size. Don't worry about buying 13" wheels and not being able to unload them if it turns out you want something different. There's probably 50 people in the forum right now that would buy them from you.

Worth a shot?

 

712's have many more sizes than the falkens. They are a better street tire, last much longer and have better all weather capability.
Azenis is much more specialized (for autocross), and lasts about 5k miles streeet driven...though it is much better at it's chosen application than what I would term as more of a "compromise" tire.(Kumho)

 

I would definitly rate the 712s as more of an track tire, than autox.. As Jon said, they slide, and I never felt comforable at an autox on them.. But on the track, a little slide here and there will teach you what you did wrong, and also its quite fun.. In autox, traction matters, because its a race for time no matter what.. Track events are schools, where learning matters..

Like Matt said, you are new to autox, do a couple more events before you go all out.. Or go to a track event to before you do.. I started with autox, and wanted to prep the car for DSP, well, I went to a track event, loved it more than autox, said screw DSP , and just wanted to learn how to drive faster with what I had for the track..

Also, remember, the 712s will last twice as much as Azenis, and cost about the same.. Its all about your checkbook, how much can you afford?

 

I think one reason to buy and recommend the Kumhos is that Kumho is one of the few manufacturers that make a real DOT Race tire (the VictoRacer and now the V700 Ecsta). Since its a fairly good tire for the money I recommend it and in so doing I support what I really want from Kumho - the R tire. I know there are better street tires out there but the Kumho has got to be the best value.

 

The 712s will probably be my street tires after I run out of RE92s on my car. I had them on my Integra and I thought they were a whole lot of fun to autox on. Not as grippy as the Azenis, BFG KD or S-03 but I found them to be quite good in rain. The 712s will be my street tires so all I really need for is something that's better than these RE92s, good in rain and will still live a long life. I have Kumho r-compounds for competition use, so my next set of street tires will probably never see any really ballistic cornering.

 

well... I've had my Azenis on for about 3000 street miles, 130 miles at Sebring, and 200 miles at Roebling road. They still have roughly half of their tread remaining granted I'm pretty sedate on the street and since their grip level is really high I rarely (if ever) make them squeel in daily driving. At the track they're outstanding intermediate tires b/c they are more forgiving and "talk" more than R compounds but have higher limits than most street tires. For the money they really are a great buy! )h yeah, and they do well in the rain... not as good as the 712's but decent for daily driving.

I'm kind of surprised that nobody has mentioned Kumho's new street tire that is supposed to be coming out soon... the Kumho MX. It's supposed to go up against the Azenis in both price and performance.

Back to the orginal question: a great tire that does everything well... nope, you're not going to find one. My advice is the same as pretty much everyone else's. Eventually, you'll want to have a set of track/autocross tires or a set of autoX only R tires and then run your sticky street tires at the track (what I do)

 

I completely agree with this, if your going to be doing a good amout of racing/autoX you gotta get another set of rims. I am planing 712's for my street rims, and hoosiers for my race set.

 

What ever happened to the AVS-is? Did they fall out of favor? They were the HPDE street tire of choice a year ago?

I never drove on either the AVS-i or the 712 .. so I have nothing of value to add to this thread. Though Maddhatter was running on 712s at Roebling in Oct and he was moving. I still need to make a clip of the video where he demos the drive by slide method of the 712s in 5b.

 

They were discontinued. Some sizes are still available in limited quantities. Not sure if a replacement has been released.

 

after reading over what everyone has said, I have decided to just order a set of wheels and tires just for autox.

I have 17" Team Loco 150 wheels and 205/40-17 Yokohama Parada tires. I am contemplating whether or not I should sell them. I really want to though. Then use the money to buy a good set of autox wheels and tires and just put my stock wheels and tires back on for the street.

For an autoxing wheel/tire combo, I thought I would go with 13" wheels (not sure what brand) and go with hoosier autocrossing slicks.

Does this seem like a good combo just for autocross?

Then again, I do agree with what somebody said earlier. I think I should run the next couple of autox events and see how well I can do with just my street tires.

thanks for all the help guys,

later and drive safe,

aj

 

AJ -

The only classes you'll be able to run in will require either a DOT racing tire (Street Mod) or a full fledged slick (prepared/mod) to be competitive. Having said that, you probably will end up changing tires at events if you want to be competitive. I think the best class for your daily driver is Street Mod. If it were me, I'd probably get a set of 13X8.5" wheels (lots of options to fit your Civic -- Keizer aluminium wheel is light and relatively inexpensive) and some of the new Kumho Ecsta V700 in 235/45-13. Some people say to start on street tires because it will help you learn the limits better; I started on race tires and I don't suck If you decide to stay on street tires for a while, continue on your current wheel/tire combo until they are corded, then buy more street tires; repeat if desired. Once you feel like you don't want to do the street tire thing anymore, get the 13s and DOT race tires.

Just my $.02

Mike


[Modified by RacerMike, 11:48 AM 1/28/2002]