https://honda-tech.com/zero...96325

I posted this in my local model specific forum, but got no replies...

Can anyone here help?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey guys,

'90 Crx VT

Well my inner/outer tie rods and upper control arms came in.

I installed the inner/outer for the right (passenger) side, and outer for the left (driver). Also upper controls for both sides.

I checked the parts as I pulled them off against what I had ordered, and they looked exactly the same (length, bends etc..), after I finished installing them, I drove the car down to the alignment shop and had them take a look at it to finalize the alignment. Well, after I returned they told me that I was out of adjustment room, and that they couldnt properly align it. They said they didnt know what was wrong, and said maybe it was a steering issue.

Here's the deal, I can tell visually that the alignment is still off. I can feel it when i drive, and now the car seems to sit higher in the front, doesnt have the same aggressive stance, and feels almost like I have power steering by how easy it is to turn the wheel. I push into turns now, and it oddly feels as if the front end isnt settled if that makes sense.

Now, if I slam on the brakes and turn sharply, the car handles like a dream, like its supposed to... But when I go to gas it, she noses up and I lose that control feeling, and she gets all jittery.

Do the ball joints need to break in? I know I replaced a lot, but I figured the car would settle down within a few minutes after taking it off the jackstands. Using a finger test, the passenger side fender well is slightly higher than the driver side, so its not dropped the same anymore, like the pass. side needs to be lowered more if that makes sense (obviously I cant do this, and all the springs are the same height.)

Ok, thats it. If you need more clarification to my rambling just ask. Im at work now, so I cant go check anything.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can you post your alignment specs, and some details about any and all bushings you've replaced? Also, what sway bars, springs and shocks are on your setup. We can go from there.

 

Im not sure exactly what alignment specs you want. Its a stock alignment I guess, I didnt get any info from the guys at the shop. They all speak french


I replaced the inner/outer tie rod for the passenger side; the outer tie rod for the driver side; and upper control arms on both sides.

Im running koni blue's with omni drop springs, about 2 inch drop, nothing major. Very slight camber is visible, but I dont have a degree to give you.

Stock sway bars.


Hope that helps a bit.

 

The way it drives sounds a little like its toe'd in up front, and they cannot get it back to zero? But that doesnt make much sense since it should be toed out from lowering.

Are the tie-rod ends after market or Honda? were they the same lengths of threading?

 

Tie rod ends are aftermarket, not honda OEM.

They measured the same as the ones I pulled off originally (threading wise) , and I couldnt tell a difference at all.

Im going to pull it all apart again, see if I missed something and remeasure... Im baffled.

 

Are they saying you need more toe in or more toe out to get to zero?

Does the VT have power steering or a safety airbag in the wheel?

If its toe out you need, then maybe the inner rod you replaced is too short or does not have enough threading. If there are any threads left on the other one, you can re-set your steering wheel (if there isnt an airbag) over one notch, then readjust the steering rack to share those threads.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fireant &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are they saying you need more toe in or more toe out to get to zero?

Does the VT have power steering or a safety airbag in the wheel?

If its toe out you need, then maybe the inner rod you replaced is too short or does not have enough threading. If there are any threads left on the other one, you can re-set your steering wheel (if there isnt an airbag) over one notch, then readjust the steering rack to share those threads.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I might have to reset the steering wheel. I was thinking of that, cause I have threading on one side, but not on the other...

No air bags, and no powersteering. Just had some minor surgery done, so soon as I can be up and about, ill tear it all downa and see whats up

 

That'll fix it!

 

VT has different end rods for the steering assembly.. you cannot use the NON-VTEC ones, aftermarket or not.. thats the first thing I thought of.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dirk-EG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">VT has different end rods for the steering assembly.. you cannot use the NON-VTEC ones, aftermarket or not.. thats the first thing I thought of.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You talking about the tie rod ends? They arent the same?

Hmm, they looked the same to me before I installed....

Damn, if thats the case im fucked

 

Just checked the vtec haynes manual, and it doesnt show different parts for the front suspension vs. the non-vtec


Can you show me, or link me where you found these were different?

 

I know for a fact that the VTEC model (EE8/EF8) have more thread, thus more room for allignment..

Multiple friends of mine in Holland swapped their non-vtec front hubs over for the 262mm disc brakes etc. and they all have to use the new tie-rod-endpieces.. ask SETI20 on this forum, he's done it, perhaps he has pictures of it somewhere...

Better yet, I'll alert him to this topic, if he finds time, he'll respond.

 

very true... SETI20 actually has the front suspension setup from my wrecked VT...

as Dirk mentioned: you need the VT rod ends...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16a1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">very true... SETI20 actually has the front suspension setup from my wrecked VT...

as Dirk mentioned: you need the VT rod ends...
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... told you so

We can order these at the dealership or via REXVT if you'd like.. just contact him or b16a1 or me or well any dutchman you know of the forum..

 

Yea ive got a deal down the road who I can get them from.

Does this just go for inner/outer tie rods? What about upper control arms and such?

Those have no adjustment, and looked identical to the originals.

Thanks for the info

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Keebler &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yea ive got a deal down the road who I can get them from.

Does this just go for inner/outer tie rods? What about upper control arms and such?

Those have no adjustment, and looked identical to the originals.

Thanks for the info </TD></TR></TABLE>

I believe only the outer ones are different, SETI only swapped those over..

Upper arms & stuff is the same, but the subframe & tension rods are different..

 

I hope so, cause that means i lost over 400 dollars in parts

Hopefully I can just replace the outers, ill pull it all down again and recheck the inner tie rods for length and thread...

Thanks for the info

 

The tie rod ends need to be OEM honda. I tried various other brands, and they all gave me the same problem you are describing.

VT rod ends are just a little longer, and deeper.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SETI20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The tie rod ends need to be OEM honda. I tried various other brands, and they all gave me the same problem you are describing.

VT rod ends are just a little longer, and deeper.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So the inners and upper control arms are ok then?

Well, least im only out 100 bucks instead of 400

 

No, the upper control arms are different too.
But I don't understand why you would change those if you can just replace the balljoint...

Just about everything is a little, or alot different.

 

The ball joints are not able to be pressed out...thats what my understanding of the upper control arm was..

They look exactly the same, whats different about them? There are no adjustments, so im baffled what could be different about the uppers?


Edit-- I changed the whole control arm because the upper bushings were shot, and i wanted to do a complete overhaul. The only thing i found listed were the whole upper arm, not the individual ball joint. I do notice now that they sell the ball joints separately. The geometry of the arm looks exactly the same as the VT arm, so I dont see what could be different......


Modified by Keebler at 8:57 PM 4/4/2005

 

AFAIK the geometry is marginally off.
A VT also has a different wheel offset than an Si for example. The VT arms hemselves may be the same, but I think it's the mounting that's off. But that should only be millimeters.

The tie rods however, are half an inch longer than Si ones. I know I made a pic...but can't seem to find it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SETI20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">AFAIK the geometry is marginally off.
A VT also has a different wheel offset than an Si for example. The VT arms hemselves may be the same, but I think it's the mounting that's off. But that should only be millimeters.

The tie rods however, are half an inch longer than Si ones. I know I made a pic...but can't seem to find it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea the tie rods i know i have to change, but the upper arms are insignificant in difference... Ill try the new tie rods, get it aligned and see how it does.. If its still fuxxored, ill pop the ball joints off the new upper arms and throw them in the old ones, and see if i can get the bushings out w/out messing them up.

I dont want to be out too much money for a dumb mistake

 

Lemme know how it goes man.
If all else fails, I might be able to help you out. You're stationed in germany right?