I am in the process of shopping for a set of pads for the coming summer. Last year, i had alot of trouble with brakes cause it always overheated on me!! This year, i plan on buying better pads hoping history would not repeat itself. I have done some research and many has recommended hawk blue as the pad of choice. The only problem to this is that i would need to swap pads and rotors evertime i hit the track which is very troublesome. Does anyone know if there is a Endless pad that will function just as well as the Hawk blue yet, daily drivable? I am already using Motul RBF 600. Thanks.

 

Several people are using the Endless CCX pad. I plan on upgrading to this pad soon...



Talk to Mike at IPS Racing @ 1-866-477-7264. He can give you some good info on the Endless pads...

 

I have used Hawk... IMO Pad seperated from the backing plate at summit point.. Good waist of 130$ with only 2 track events..

Havn't used endless, so can't comment

But I do know this, CARBOTECH ROCKS!.. The panther line of pads are really kickass, and many many people on this board will agree..

 

I'm planning on getting the Carbotechs as my next set of pads..I have heard many great things about them...not overly expensive as the Endless line of pads too

 

OK, I am a retard sometimes..

But yes, look into carbotech panther plus.. Check out http://www.carbotecheng.com


[Modified by Honda318dx, 10:49 AM 1/27/2002]

 

Thanks for the response!! Which model of carbontechs is comparable to the Hawk Blue? Is this pad daily drivable??


[Modified by eg-six, 7:55 AM 1/27/2002]

 

Here is an e-mail I received from Andie at Carbotech when I was inquiring about pads. He was very helpfu land I don't think he would have a problem with me posting the message here...

 

Endless, The CC-X performs like track only pads without the squealing, eating up the rotor etc. and Mine seem to be lasting quite well (Meaning that my CC-X might cost more than some others but is lasting twice as long, and I dont baby my brakes)
There are many Endless models though and it is all based upon your needs, Give us a call and we can figure whats best for yours.

 

I would keep this in mind...

When I was researching pads and I found almost one person for each brand of pads that had destroyed the pad after one track event/autocross/etc and hated that brand of pad.

What pad is good for you depends on your braking style, etc, etc. There are lots of factors.

So what do you do? I figured for myself, start at the cheapest pads and move up slowly. So I grabbed a set of Hawk HP+ pads. If I destroy them at the track the first time I won't feel bad because they are cheaper pads.

 

After doing some research, i have found that Endless makes a track only pad called "MA 11". Is this pad comparable to Hawk Blues?

 

I put 3000km street miles on mine Blue and slots.
damn blue bites up all the slots after 1500 km..
not a daily choice.
too bad i didnt shoot the pics.

 

I was looking at MA 11's too. I was told that performance-wise, they around the same as the blues, but don't have the nasty orange dust that most Hawk products generate. Instead, it's a black, less corrosive dust.

However, the price on them is just not worth considering. At least for me... Since pads are just wear and tear anyways, I don't think it's worth spending that much more for a pad just because it's Endless. I'm sure there are plenty of other pads out there that would do the job you want them to. Panther + is a good example with less nasty dusting. So are all of the PF comounds, but they may be too aggressive for light cars without race slicks.

 

Hawk Blues for me. I abuse the crap out of them at the track, and only 1 set has ever seperated on me, but that was more because the track didn't give a chance for the brakes to cool (Jefferson Circuit).

If you're not gonna do Hawk Blues, then I suggest one of the Carbotech pads. Endless = overpriced. Blues are $125 from Essex racing, and I think Carbotechs (Panther +, and Panther XP) about the same.

Warren

 

Sorry for the newbie question........i am looking the the info of these pads and they always suggest a coefficient of friction. Can anyone explain this to me? As i understood, it's just a measurement of friction so i assumed the higher the better....is this correct?? Correct me if i am wrong. Thanks!

 

higher is better unless you overheat the brakes or it shaves off too much rotor material for your taste.

Warren

 

I am looking at the Panther + and Panther XP and both of these pads seem to exceed the performance of the Hawk blues (info gathered at their websites). Does anyone know how rotor friendly these pads are if they were used on the streets as well??

 

IMO there has to be some tradeoff somewhere. I just don't see it being possible to have a pad that will: dust very little, squeek very little, have a very high temperature range, be rotor friendly, and last long. That would be like having tires that stick like slicks but wear like rocks. There has to be some kind of tradeoff. You can do a lot with formulating different compounds, but a tire or a brake pad will still have to do the same thing.

That being said it sounds like Carbotech has figured out some really great compounds that have a good tradeoff with rotor friendlyness and high temperature ability. I would still rather use a pad with less streetability for the track like Hawk blues. If you're already changing tires at the track how much effort is it to change the pads and rotors in the front?

By changing at the track you can use cheap OEM pads and leftover scored/machined whatever rotors for the street that have relatively low dust and are very quiet. Have you ever had to convince your friends that the squealing is normal and they don't need to be changed? Blues last a long time too. Most people go through two sets of rotors for every set of pads.

I wouldn't bother with Endless or any Japanese brand for something like pads. Mostly personal preference, but I know people that use Hawks and Carbotechs and I know if I have a problem with them I can communicate with them directly and not have to go through a distributor. Ever have a problem with a Tein or a Zeal coilover?

[edit]: Also I'd be weary of taking manufacturer's or distributor's claims for full face value. Pads are very hard to subjectively compare. The only way to compare is to either use them all yourself or rely on other people who have the exact same priorities as you and they have tested them all themselves.


[Modified by B18C5, 4:26 PM 1/27/2002]

 

I like my porterfields....I havn't had them for very long though.

 

I have Hawk HP+ and Endless CC-X pads.

IMHO the Endless CC-X pads are not as good as the Hawk HP+

Initial bite is better the the HP+, plus they can sustain higher temperate without fade or glazing than CC-X.

I've run both on street and road course. The CC-X and HP+ are about even on the street. HP+ has more bite, CC-X less noise. But the HP+ is better on the road course because it can take more heat.

 

Endless vita nuevo are excellent street pads.

 

Carbotech Panther Plus are the way to go. I've used them with extremely good results at Sebring, Roebling Road, autoX, and even street driving. They are a very progressive pad with good initial bite but the dust isn't corrosive and damaging like the Hawk Blues.

Andie and Larry at Carbotech get

Larry even personally delivered a spare set of rotors to me at Roebling this past weekend

 

MA-11 is a very good track pad. They bite VERY well and dust is acceptable. But they are way too noisy for street use. The MA series is infamous of being long lasting. They had a record of finishing an entire endurance race in Australia without changing pads (I think that was MA-45, but not sure).

Endless also do not recommend using these pads with street tires since it would cause too much lock-up. I've been using my set of MA-11 for 4 track events last year and they still have more than half left. Although they're more expensive, I found them to be pretty worthy.

 

Warren, when your next set of blues die, get some carbotechs, at least give them a try.. Panther XP is an excellent track only pad.. I only used them at VIR full, which isn't to hard on brakes, but they worked perferct, and look new.. Also, because they are rivited, you don't get that spongy feeling that you get with the blues..

If the HP+ is better than the CC-X pad, then definitly go with carbotech . Hawk HP+ overheats easily on the track from what I have seen.. Try carbotech panther plus, if that is not good enough (it is great for 95% of all the people I know using carbotech pads) then try the panther XP.. Panther plus worked great for me, but then went to the panther XP, which is their new compound, to do a little testing.. After 1.5 years of searching for the perferct pad for ME, I finally found it.

 

OK.....after some calculations, it would be impossible to buy Carbotechs panther plus. Since i live in Canada, the shipping, taxes, brokage fees, and duties will end up costing more than endless pads!! So this narrows me down to 2 choices, Hawk blues or Endless MA11.....any inputs??

Of course, if people know where i can get Carbotech in Canada, please notify me. Thanks!


[Modified by eg-six, 10:32 AM 1/29/2002]

 

MA-11 is not for street use. Optimal temperature starts too high (300'C). If you run them cold, they eat your rotors like crazy. Plus if you're not using R compound tires you would have a lot of wheel lock-ups. Not to mention the noise.

Try the CC-X if you're gonna go Endless. It's MUCH more streetable.