the car is a 2000 civic Si. on the car now is tokico blue's paired w/ ground control coil overs. the rear shocks are shot to hell, the front aren't so bad but I'm going to replace all 4 at the same time. I've decided I'd like to go with some adjustable shock so I could tweak it to my likings and also stiffen it up for summer time spirited driving or soften it up a little for road trips/winter driving type stuff. I'll also need a camber kit because I have slight tread wear(just enough to chew up tires)

Here's my choices of shocks to match w/ my ground control coil overs.

#1 Koni Sports (Yellow) $515.00 +/- Shipped

#2 Tokico Illuminus $330.00 +/- Shipped

#3 KYB AGX $310 +/- Shipped

I can afford to purchase any of the selections but would preffer to go with the smartest choice, I don't race my car I may take it to the track but for fun only.. I'll also need to buy a camber kit as stated above so suggestions on that would also be helpfull. I'm on the fence chosing between koni yellows or tokico illuminu's can anyone tell me the difference I could expect between these two shocks.


All prices listed are from ebay, if you think they may be cheaper somewhere else please let me know. . Also I'll be installing them myself, this will be the first time so if you have any suggestions or tips feel free to speak up. Also is there anything else that I may want to replace since I'll be there anyways I have 75k on the car now so I don't know if I should replace bushings or anything like that.
thanks in advance,
Justin


(I did try reading the shock dyno at the top of the page and that **** flew rite over my head so I'm sorry if I'm bringing up a tired subject.)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Insane Si Lum &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I can afford to purchase any of the selections but would preffer to go with the smartest choice, I don't race my car I may take it to the track but for fun only.. I'll also need to buy a camber kit as stated above so suggestions on that would also be helpfull. I'm on the fence chosing between koni yellows or tokico illuminu's can anyone tell me the difference I could expect between these two shocks.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

There really is no comparison between the two. Koni is by far the best you can buy in every regard.

Why do you need a camber kit? Unless your dumped, it's not necessary. After the install, get an alingment and have the toe set to 0.

 

I figured I'd need to adjust the camber because I'm wearing out the inside of tires way to fast. the car isn't slammed exactly but it's kinda low. front lip is I'd say 6" off the ground mabey a little over 6-6.5" .. and is the koni shock really that much better i'll probably end up buying them but with a 185 dollar difference I wanted to make sure I'm not just paying for a name.. and no matter what I decide I'll be better off then where I am now..


Thanks again, keep the replies coming I want to hear what you guys have to say
Justin


Modified by Insane Si Lum at 12:38 PM 3/24/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Insane Si Lum &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I figured I'd need to adjust the camber because I'm wearing out the inside of tires way to fast. the car isn't slammed exactly but it's kinda low. front lip is I'd say 6" off the ground mabey a little over 6-6.5" </TD></TR></TABLE>

That really isn't low at all. You're alingment is probably off.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Insane Si Lum &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and is the koni shock really that much better </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Insane Si Lum &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I figured I'd need to adjust the camber because I'm wearing out the inside of tires way to fast.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You're wearing out the inside shoulders because of toe-out, not because of negative camber. Go to an alignment shop and tell them to ignore the camber, and set the toe to the center of factory spec range.

 

So at what point does it become necessary to adjust camber? and can anyone tell me what difference I may notice between a koni sport and tokico illumina shock?
Again thanks for the imput everyone I'm new to suspension mods so everything helps.

Justin

 

Well, here's some advice from someone who's spent thousands in products and alignments on an '02 Si.

When you lower it, it will toe in. When you add negative camber, it will toe in. ... no matter what, get an aignment with your toe zero'd if you change either one of those two things... or it will eat up your tires.

The Koni shocks are going to be the best buy in the long run, even though thier install on the front struts is a little more involved (unless they've released a newer model that is different somehow).

Honda has a set of crash bolts you can get for less than $15 from the dealership. Just get a pair and have them installed on the top holes on the spindles, and then torque them to 110lb-ft. Then you'll have about -.75° camber, which is a good thing on the EP3.

 

what all is more involved on the koni's just the brake line problem or is it more then that. also can you explain the crash bolts you mentioned I'm not even sure what that is.. sorry

 

Crash bolts are camber bolts. They fit on the wheel knuckles and run paralell to the direction of travel. Each wheel knuckle has two retaining bolts, one on top one on bottom. You can replace one of both of them with the smaller-diameter "crash bolt" and it will allow the knuckle to rock inward, creating negative camber. They call these crash bolts, because they are often used to help realign cars that have camber issues after a wreck that bent something.

If you dont autocross, having the crash bolts is not an essential thing, but it sure does help the Mcpherson struts on the EP3 handle better.

As for Koni Installs, I cant explain it all, but I can tell you there are some step-by-step tutorials with pictures at both of these sites: http://www.ephatch.com http://www.k-series.com

At ephatch, look in the Suspension forum for posts by BlasTech (me). I wrote lots of pages about alignment on the EP3

HTH!

 

I think you misread. He has a 2000 car, not an '02+ Si.

 

dahhh! How did I miss that?

Well, I guess you're back to square one, but Koni's are still the top choice, just less trouble to install.

 

I was about to purchase the koni sports I decided to shop around further then ebay a little. I found http://www.shox.com on there I noticed they had two different sets of ground control coil overs 1 stated it will work with a koni or bilstein shock the other said with all shocks except koni and bilstein. so since I have tokico blues I must need some extra pieces. the guy at ground control said I should just buy tokico's save 108 bucks in the parts to adapt and make the koni's work.. I'm half tempted to take the mans advice but I do want those yellows..

Can anyone tell me why these shocks don't work with my coil overs and point me in the direction of what I have to do to make them work. Or just make me feel a little better about buying the Illumina's

Thanks again everyone your help is appriciated greatly

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Insane Si Lum &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can anyone tell me why these shocks don't work with my coil overs and point me in the direction of what I have to do to make them work. Or just make me feel a little better about buying the Illumina's </TD></TR></TABLE>
Koni dampers use a little snap ring set into one of several grooves on the damper body to set the position of the spring perch (this allows multiple perch heights for those who are using just springs instead of threaded coilover sleeves; other dampers just have the spring perch welded onto the body at a single fixed location). Because of this unique design, Koni dampers require a spring perch that will fit over and "capture" the snap ring properly so that it does not accidentally expand under force and slide down the body.

Ground Control's Koni-specific coilover sleeves have a groove machined into the bottom edge of the sleeve, which fits around the snap ring and captures it snugly. With other dampers, the sleeve just sits on the perch - and thus most coilover sleeves out there are not made to accomodate the Koni mounting setup. Using these non-Koni-specific sleeves may cause the snap ring to fail.

GC does make adapters, of course, to allow their non-Koni sleeves to fit Koni dampers - as you already know.

As far as whether or not you should spend the extra cash for the Konis over the Illuminas, well that's your choice to make. The Konis really are a better damper and the extra cost was worth it to me, however I use my car at the track regularly and compete in autocross events, so my needs may be a little different from yours. If all you do is normal street driving, then many advantages of the Konis may not be as obvious and/or useful to you. The Illumina is certainly not a bad damper, it's just simply not quite as good as the Sport.

 

Targa thanks for the well explained explination, that makes perfect sense I had looked up pictured on ground controls web site and couldn't understand what it was that needed to be modified. I may just keep this simple, any shock will work better then whats on the car now and I don't autocross or even go to the strip. the most I'll do is some curvy mountain roads durring the summer so the illumina should hold up for me. Again thank you
Justin