Hello everyone,

I have a Millermatic 135 at my house. When I am using it, it will typically flip off the fuse to the outlet I'm using on my houses fuse box 4 or 5 times during an hour period. It happens on any outlet I use. I was wondering if anyone else welding at home with a 115 volt welder is experiencing this problem. Does anyone know what is causing this? It tends to happen when my arc is breaking up possibly due to improper position or going over a dirty section on the workpiece.

Thanks for any help.


Modified by Just Checking In at 5:30 PM 3/13/2005

 

you need a higher amp breaker. and dont just take the one out and add a bigger one. you need thicker wiring for bigger breakers. to do it right i think you should just run wire from the breaker box to wherever you weld and add another outlet and make it your designated welding outlet. when i got my 220 line run in my garage i had them wire up a 110 line right beside it with a big breaker (i forget which one exactly). now i have a 110 line for my mig and a 220 line for my tig/stick right beside eachother that doesnt pop

 

Ok, thank you for your reply. Is this a common issue that you know of?
Kinda pisses me off because the whole reason I didn't go with the Millermatic 175 was because I did not want to have to isntall a new outlet for what welding I do at home.

Also, obviously the point of the fuse is to prevent damage, but does anyone know if constantly flipping a household fuse can cause any damages to the house's electrical box or lines that I am not aware of?


Modified by Just Checking In at 7:51 PM 3/13/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Just Checking In &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, obviously the point of the fuse is to prevent damage, but does anyone know if constantly flipping a household fuse can cause any damages to the house's electrical box or lines that I am not aware of?


Modified by Just Checking In at 7:51 PM 3/13/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

if the fuse is tripping its for a reason. a fuse, circuit breaker, etc were designed to trip at a preset rate. the fuse, circuit breakers are there to actually protect the wire goin to the outlet. most ppl think they are there to protect the equipment plugged in which isnt true.
i assume ur running it on an older home cause u say "fuse", u might have it on a 15amp fuse and need a 20amp fuse instead. if not, hire a licensed electrician to install a new outlet in the garage with a 30amp or bigger fuse.

 

easier way....get a 220 to 110 step down transformer... plug it in where your dryer goes (220 outlet)... and run extension cord to work area....you can draw more power then you need at that point

 

Yea, I know its to protect the house wiring, not the equipment. Anyways, looks like I'll have to call an electrician to do a new outlet.

I find it odd though that this 135 is supposed to be made for "going anywhere" yet it can't be used on a standard house electrical outlet with regular fuses/circuit breakers.


Modified by Just Checking In at 10:40 PM 3/13/2005

 

well are they fuses or is it a breaker? fuses blow, breakers trip and can be reset.
if u wanted to get really ghetto fabulous. do what 2k.civic.si said but dont even us a transformer. just get some #8 welding wire, a dryer male end hook up the leads to the dryer male but only use 1 leg of the 220V outlet, you will be running 110V w/ neutral and ground, plus ur protected by the higher rated fuse.

 

They are breakers, I guess I shouldn't use the term fuse for anything that stops electron travel, but I have heard the term resetable fuse. Anyways, I wonder how many more people welding with a 115 volt are having this problem without installing a large breaker. The 220 volt adapters are not an option for me.

 

my cousin has a 115volt welder also....he flips breakers anytime he tries to weld thicker metals he says....he has to crank up the amp/volts i guess...from what i do know...the heavy load from a welder would cause the wires to warm up and increases resistance which would increase amperage draw and finally cause the breaker to pop....this is why it doesnt happen immediately but after a bit of welding

 

I don't see how an increase in ohms though can lead to an increase in amperage, aren't they oppositely proportional to eachother. I guess what Im saying is, it seems to me the welder is at fault for wanting to draw more amps at any given instant then my breaker will allow, rather then the wire conducting heat and causing an increase in ohms. Does someone know if this is correct?

 

when the ohms goes up the voltage drops...when the voltage drops the welder pulls more amperage in an attempt to regulate and keep the voltage/amps that it is set to

 

Thanks for your replies.


How does the welder perform the function of pulling more current when resistance goes up to keep volts constant?

Also I thought when ohms go up, current must fall, but not necessarily the charge?

Current = charge / resistance
Current x resistance = charge etc...

 

you are probably plug your welder into a 10Amp breaker. you should run an extension cord to the washer outlet (it's a 20Amp breaker circuit) or any 20Amp outlet--you can find out by looking on the breaker panel. i weld all day long with my hobarb 145amp welder on that with no problem.

 

2 things to be aware of with your welder:

1) If you look at the spec panel you will see that it requires 25 or possibly more amps in. They won't tell you that when you buy it, but you cannot use a 110v MIG to capacity with a standard 15 amp outlet.

2) Most 110v welders have a very low duty cycle: Like 20% or less. That means for every second that you are welding you should have 4 seconds of break time. I am lucky enough to have 20 amp circuits in my garage, but I still pop the breakers when I try to lay down a long bead!

 

im an electrician and unless u live in an old house u wont find 10A breakers. common is 15amp throughout the bedrooms and kitchen/laundry rooms need 20A. dryers have anywhere from 30A to 40A breakers typically.

yes, it is true that u can heat the wire up but it would have to be at maximum amperage. seriously u could feasibly run a 40A breaker on that #12 wire thats only rated at 20A, but this is against the national electrical code standards.

where is the panel located??? thats the most important thing. then i can give u some ideas and even some DIY tips on figuring out a remedy.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Just Checking In &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for your replies.


How does the welder perform the function of pulling more current when resistance goes up to keep volts constant?

Also I thought when ohms go up, current must fall, but not necessarily the charge?

Current = charge / resistance
Current x resistance = charge etc...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

it has a regulator in it...the regulator pulls more current when the voltage drops to keep the voltage for the equipment its running constant...aka voltage regulator....while not as sophisticated as voltage regulators say in your tv...it keeps the voltage within the tolerances its designed for...for a welder i would imagine its a rather crude and heavy duty regulator...therefor being very inefficient

when you set your welder to a specific voltage with the dial on the front...thats about the voltage it kicks out (within the tolerances of the regulator) regardless if pg&e is feeding you 110volts or higher....if youve ever logged incoming voltage from your utility company is varies daily....

ive logged anywhere from as low as 100volts during being on the low side (brown out) to as high as 119 where i live avg. is about 112 ...voltage regulators are your friend

 

Run a dedicated circuit just for the welder. Install a new 20 amp breaker with the proper size wire and a single outlet for the welder.

The circuit you are on now may have other things running at the same time that you are unaware of.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im an electrician and unless u live in an old house u wont find 10A breakers. common is 15amp throughout the bedrooms and kitchen/laundry rooms need 20A. dryers have anywhere from 30A to 40A breakers typically.

yes, it is true that u can heat the wire up but it would have to be at maximum amperage. seriously u could feasibly run a 40A breaker on that #12 wire thats only rated at 20A, but this is against the national electrical code standards.

where is the panel located??? thats the most important thing. then i can give u some ideas and even some DIY tips on figuring out a remedy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Listen to this guy^...he knows his ****.

I just ran all new power in my garage because I was having similar problems running saws, mill and a compressor on the 15A circuits. Luckly the breaker box is right outside the garage so I was able to make 5 runs consisting of 240, 220 and 110 using 3/4" conduit with 10 and 12 gauge wire. Goodluck and be careful playing around in the breaker box if you do.

 

Thanks 1 2 NV, 2kcivic and everyone else for your helpful insight and in the case of 1 2 NV, expertise.

The box is right outside the garage like skunked says. Is there any possibility I can just place a 20 amp breaker in the box in place of the old 15 that feeds only the one outlet I am using. What were some of your suggestions going to be 1 2 NV?

 

really you could just replace that 15A breaker with a 20A like u are talking about. technically its not approved by the national electrical code standards but we see much much worse hack jobs in houses.
the other thing to do is go down to home depot or store like it, buy a plastic cut in box, 4' of #10 or #8 romex, a proper sized breaker and a plastic romex connector.
knock out a hole in the bottom of the electrical panel using the existing knock out (KO) holes. then cut a hole the size of the outside of the plastic box you bought from home depot, make sure u cut this box under the electrical panel. next slide a #8 or #10 piece of romex wire down through the KO in the bottom of the electrical panel into the hole u cut in for the plastic cut in box. next slide the wire into the plastic box and anchor it with supplied mounting tabs. then place the plastic romex connector into the bottom of the electrical panel and "sleeve" the wire through it. connect the wire to a 30A outlet using the #10 wire or a 40A outlet with the #8 wire. next get the appropriate outlet for the voltage u will be using (120V) hook it up and ur done. hope this makes sense, if not i suppose i could take some pics simulating the installation.

 

Hello again,

1 2 NV I have another question for you. I know this sounds lame, but I have realized when I am using my clothes dryer while I am welding outside in my garage on a seperate 110 outlet, the lights inside my house dim and flicker when I lay down a bead. Is it normal for a dryer and welder to take up so much current when used together that the rest of the household fixtures become starved? Does this sound like a problem with my house wiring that needs to be looked into? Just thought I would see what you had to say first before opening up the phonebook. I appreciate your input.

Anyone else ever notice this? Lol..

 

Mine flips only if I get the weld stuck, when I started beganing it sucked, not it never happens.

 

it will be common with smaller house panels because theres so much current drawn. its really similar to having a large sound system in a car with lots of amp draw only 120V instead of 12-14V. dryers since they have heating elements in them will also take decent sized current. most dryers have 30A breaker ratings. also both take power from each phase of current coming into the house so lets just say the dryer is on pulling a steady 20A from each phase add the welder laying a bead to that and lets just say its pullin a steady 35A with a peak of 40A. so theoretically u are seeing 55-60A roughly on a house panel thats got a 200A max. could be even smaller with 100A service on older smaller homes.
hope that helps im off for a 3 hr trip to an out of town job site, damnit.