Help on race car build
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From: RICHMOND, VA
Help on race car build
After two season of autocrossing, I think that I am ready to build a full out race car. I plan on attending some HPDE events this season as well, and I'm sure that I'll be hooked on that even more than I am with autocrossing.
Recently, I picked up a 94 Integra shell for $500. The body isn't in the best shape, and the motor is blown, but I think that it will be a good starter car.
Here are my plans for the car:
Completely gutted, leaving stock dash intact.
Kosei K1 15x7 with 205/50 Victoracers
B16b stroked with GSR crank/rods using CTR tranny with stock dif.
Some sort of short ram intake.
Tuned with Hondata S100.
Custom ground controls with the new Koni race shocks.
JDM 23mm ITR rear-sway bar.
Ebay strut/tie bars.
My big question lies in the seat, harness, and cage selection.
Should I go ahead and cage the car, get a racing seat (Sparce EVO is what I was looking at) and a set of approved harnesses right away?
Or should I wait until I get a season under my belt with the stock seats/belts before I add a cage/seat/harness?
The reason I'm asking is because the car doesn't have seats in it right now, and I really would like to avoid having to buy stock Civic or Integra seat when I'll probably just rip them out at the end of the season to replace it with a racing seat.
I just don't want to get in over my head with a chassis that is undriveable by a novice like myself.
Recently, I picked up a 94 Integra shell for $500. The body isn't in the best shape, and the motor is blown, but I think that it will be a good starter car.
Here are my plans for the car:
Completely gutted, leaving stock dash intact.
Kosei K1 15x7 with 205/50 Victoracers
B16b stroked with GSR crank/rods using CTR tranny with stock dif.
Some sort of short ram intake.
Tuned with Hondata S100.
Custom ground controls with the new Koni race shocks.
JDM 23mm ITR rear-sway bar.
Ebay strut/tie bars.
My big question lies in the seat, harness, and cage selection.
Should I go ahead and cage the car, get a racing seat (Sparce EVO is what I was looking at) and a set of approved harnesses right away?
Or should I wait until I get a season under my belt with the stock seats/belts before I add a cage/seat/harness?
The reason I'm asking is because the car doesn't have seats in it right now, and I really would like to avoid having to buy stock Civic or Integra seat when I'll probably just rip them out at the end of the season to replace it with a racing seat.
I just don't want to get in over my head with a chassis that is undriveable by a novice like myself.
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From: Jasma
Re: Help on race car build (jar)
I'd leave the engine alone and stick to street tires for HPDEs....you'll learn faster as:
-j00 won't need to be wrenching on the car
-the r-compound tires wont mask j00r mistakes
-j00 won't need to be wrenching on the car
-the r-compound tires wont mask j00r mistakes
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From: RICHMOND, VA
Re: Help on race car build (El Pollo Diablo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd leave the engine alone and stick to street tires for HPDEs....you'll learn faster as:
-j00 won't need to be wrenching on the car
-the r-compound tires wont mask j00r mistakes</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, the only reason I'm touching the engine is because I have a friend of mine who is giving me a killer deal on the B16B, and the one in the car is blown. Also, I figured why not do a small build on it while it is out of the car?
The R compounds are what I had on my wheels for autocrossing, I just assumed I'd use them for track days as well.
-j00 won't need to be wrenching on the car
-the r-compound tires wont mask j00r mistakes</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, the only reason I'm touching the engine is because I have a friend of mine who is giving me a killer deal on the B16B, and the one in the car is blown. Also, I figured why not do a small build on it while it is out of the car?
The R compounds are what I had on my wheels for autocrossing, I just assumed I'd use them for track days as well.
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From: Between Willow, and Button Willow, CA, USA
Re: Help on race car build (jar)
You will find lots of info on your build in this forum.
In answer to your question, I would go ahead with the cage, seat, and harness now. You have a pretty quick car in the works, and it really should be caged. The speeds the car will be capable of really necessitate all the safety equipment.
I would recommend one thing you did not mention. If you have no, or very Little track experience, try starting on street tires. They are cheaper, and will let you learn the limits of the car quicker and easier than dot race tires like victoracers or RA1's.
Damn Pollo, you beat me!
In answer to your question, I would go ahead with the cage, seat, and harness now. You have a pretty quick car in the works, and it really should be caged. The speeds the car will be capable of really necessitate all the safety equipment.
I would recommend one thing you did not mention. If you have no, or very Little track experience, try starting on street tires. They are cheaper, and will let you learn the limits of the car quicker and easier than dot race tires like victoracers or RA1's.
Damn Pollo, you beat me!
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From: Merrimack,, NH, USA
Re: Help on race car build (jar)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jar »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The R compounds are what I had on my wheels for autocrossing, I just assumed I'd use them for track days as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I started ax-ing with R compound. Big mistake. When I started HPDE, I started on street tires and have never been sorry. I feel like I learned much more aobut handling my car on ST than I would have on R. I see it all the time in students too. Those on R compounds have a lot harder of a time knowing when they made a mistake, and knowing what to do to fix it next time.
YMMV
I started ax-ing with R compound. Big mistake. When I started HPDE, I started on street tires and have never been sorry. I feel like I learned much more aobut handling my car on ST than I would have on R. I see it all the time in students too. Those on R compounds have a lot harder of a time knowing when they made a mistake, and knowing what to do to fix it next time.
YMMV
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From: Scotts Valley, CA
Re: Help on race car build (jar)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jar »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B16b stroked with GSR crank/rods using CTR tranny with stock dif.
Tuned with Hondata S100.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sounds expensive. In my opinion, get a stock b18b and tranny. less headache than funky builds, and you car will be legal for honda challenge or ITE. If you start messing with the engine you limit were you can eventually race. check the rules for were you are going.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jar »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My big question lies in the seat, harness, and cage selection.
Should I go ahead and cage the car, get a racing seat (Sparce EVO is what I was looking at) and a set of approved harnesses right away?
Or should I wait until I get a season under my belt with the stock seats/belts before I add a cage/seat/harness?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
buy as much saftey gear as you can afford as soon as you can. you won't regret it. This kid didn't regret it:
http://www.nasaforums.com/view...art=0
scroll down to pics at the bottom.
Tuned with Hondata S100.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sounds expensive. In my opinion, get a stock b18b and tranny. less headache than funky builds, and you car will be legal for honda challenge or ITE. If you start messing with the engine you limit were you can eventually race. check the rules for were you are going.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jar »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My big question lies in the seat, harness, and cage selection.
Should I go ahead and cage the car, get a racing seat (Sparce EVO is what I was looking at) and a set of approved harnesses right away?
Or should I wait until I get a season under my belt with the stock seats/belts before I add a cage/seat/harness?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
buy as much saftey gear as you can afford as soon as you can. you won't regret it. This kid didn't regret it:
http://www.nasaforums.com/view...art=0
scroll down to pics at the bottom.
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From: Boone, NC, United States
Re: Help on race car build (jar)
I would find a stock replacement or rebuild the motor to stock specs. You will learn more with less power and street tires. It will also be easier to find a class to fit in with stock components.
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From: RICHMOND, VA
Re: Help on race car build (RineRacing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RineRacing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just like Autocrossing, read rules then build car. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Will do, excuse my newbness.
Will do, excuse my newbness.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Help on race car build (jar)
Build the car to the series you want to race in, dont build a car and then figure out where the hell it fits (likely some uncompetitive catch-all mess where guys like to spend lots of $$).
Keep the engine stock. Make the car safe and reliable. Start on street tires and learn from there - spend the $$ on a good cage/seats/belts rather than a B16B v-attack engine
Keep the engine stock. Make the car safe and reliable. Start on street tires and learn from there - spend the $$ on a good cage/seats/belts rather than a B16B v-attack engine
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From: One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.
Re: Help on race car build (Littleton)
I agree with the "don't dick around with the engine" comments.
Find a class for the car and build to those rules. If it's a GS/RS/LS 2-door, it fits nicely in ITA. If it's a GSR, then it's an ITS car. If it's a 4 door, you're out of luck for now - only the coupe is classed (should be pretty easy to get the 4 door classed with the same specs as the 2-door).
Find a class for the car and build to those rules. If it's a GS/RS/LS 2-door, it fits nicely in ITA. If it's a GSR, then it's an ITS car. If it's a 4 door, you're out of luck for now - only the coupe is classed (should be pretty easy to get the 4 door classed with the same specs as the 2-door).
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From: Charleston, SC, USA
Re: Help on race car build (Crack Monkey)
yep.. i'm going to have to agree to leave the motor stock(within the rules you are building to).. otherwise when you do get around to racing you'll jump in head first to something you don't want to be in right away - H1, etc.. you can get a used stock motor for pretty cheap I'd imagine, especially if it's not a GSR(didn't see trim level listed)..
otherwise your mod plans sound good! I'd get the cage, seat, and harness out the way first though..
otherwise your mod plans sound good! I'd get the cage, seat, and harness out the way first though..
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From: RICHMOND, VA
Re: Help on race car build (mstewar)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yep.. i'm going to have to agree to leave the motor stock(within the rules you are building to).. otherwise when you do get around to racing you'll jump in head first to something you don't want to be in right away - H1, etc.. you can get a used stock motor for pretty cheap I'd imagine, especially if it's not a GSR(didn't see trim level listed)..
otherwise your mod plans sound good! I'd get the cage, seat, and harness out the way first though..</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's the plan.
The car is an LS, but since the engine in it is blown, I wanted to replace it with something that performs better. Would a GSR throw my classing all off, or could I run in ITA rather than ITS?
otherwise your mod plans sound good! I'd get the cage, seat, and harness out the way first though..</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's the plan.
The car is an LS, but since the engine in it is blown, I wanted to replace it with something that performs better. Would a GSR throw my classing all off, or could I run in ITA rather than ITS?
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Help on race car build (jar)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jar »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The car is an LS, but since the engine in it is blown, I wanted to replace it with something that performs better. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Why? You havent even put the thing on track yet. If you want to race SCCA (ITS) you cant change the engine in the tub. If you want to race NASA, you can - but a GSR is going to be a bit faster and faster = harder on tires/brakes/gas and more expensive to operate.
Why? You havent even put the thing on track yet. If you want to race SCCA (ITS) you cant change the engine in the tub. If you want to race NASA, you can - but a GSR is going to be a bit faster and faster = harder on tires/brakes/gas and more expensive to operate.
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From: RICHMOND, VA
Re: Help on race car build (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why? You havent even put the thing on track yet. If you want to race SCCA (ITS) you cant change the engine in the tub. If you want to race NASA, you can - but a GSR is going to be a bit faster and faster = harder on tires/brakes/gas and more expensive to operate.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Because I've grown accustomed to driving a GSR (what I have now) it just doesn't seem to make a ton of sense to downgrade, espically since right now seems like an opprotune time to throw a GSR in rather than the stock LS.
SCCA won't allow me to change the engine, being that the bodies are of the Integras stay pretty much exactly the same without throwing my classing way off? Is this one of those rules that doesn't really make much sense? Do they check your VIN numbers or something?
Because I've grown accustomed to driving a GSR (what I have now) it just doesn't seem to make a ton of sense to downgrade, espically since right now seems like an opprotune time to throw a GSR in rather than the stock LS.
SCCA won't allow me to change the engine, being that the bodies are of the Integras stay pretty much exactly the same without throwing my classing way off? Is this one of those rules that doesn't really make much sense? Do they check your VIN numbers or something?
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Re: Help on race car build (jar)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jar »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Because I've grown accustomed to driving a GSR (what I have now) it just doesn't seem to make a ton of sense to downgrade, espically since right now seems like an opprotune time to throw a GSR in rather than the stock LS.</TD></TR></TABLE>
A gutted, lightened LS on race tires (ITA/H4) will be much faster than a stock, street tired GSR on track no question.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">being that the bodies are of the Integras stay pretty much exactly the same without throwing my classing way off? Is this one of those rules that doesn't really make much sense? Do they check your VIN numbers or something?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I just told you, you cant swap a different engine into the tub. If you are protested, they can check the VIN and it would be upheld.
Because I've grown accustomed to driving a GSR (what I have now) it just doesn't seem to make a ton of sense to downgrade, espically since right now seems like an opprotune time to throw a GSR in rather than the stock LS.</TD></TR></TABLE>
A gutted, lightened LS on race tires (ITA/H4) will be much faster than a stock, street tired GSR on track no question.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">being that the bodies are of the Integras stay pretty much exactly the same without throwing my classing way off? Is this one of those rules that doesn't really make much sense? Do they check your VIN numbers or something?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I just told you, you cant swap a different engine into the tub. If you are protested, they can check the VIN and it would be upheld.
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From: RICHMOND, VA
Re: Help on race car build (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A gutted, lightened LS on race tires (ITA/H4) will be much faster than a stock, street tired GSR on track no question.
I just told you, you cant swap a different engine into the tub. If you are protested, they can check the VIN and it would be upheld.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I guess an LS is the way to go. Sorry for frustrating you guys, I just want to make sure I do things right.
I just told you, you cant swap a different engine into the tub. If you are protested, they can check the VIN and it would be upheld.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I guess an LS is the way to go. Sorry for frustrating you guys, I just want to make sure I do things right.
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Re: Help on race car build (jar)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jar »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, thanks for the clarification. I guess an LS is the way to go. Sorry for frustrating you guys, I just want to make sure I do things right.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No problem. No such thing as stupid questions, just stupid people (and they tend to be the ones who don't ask questions, or ignore the answeres if they did ask).
Here is the direct link to the SCCA Improved Touring rules...
http://www.scca.com/_Filelibra...y.pdf
And the SCCA GCR in full...
http://www.scca.com/_Filelibra...s.pdf
The GCR has the basic stuff - safety gear, flagging, procedures, etc
The IT Category document has the specific class rules and listing of classified cars.
Page 29 of the IT specs has the listing for 94-99 Acura Integra GS/LS/RS. The rest of the document has the engine, suspension, etc preparation rules that apply to all cars in the class.
As for the basics of what you can and cannot do...
1. If it does not explicitly give you permission to do something, you cannot.
2. Read the book for the rest
No problem. No such thing as stupid questions, just stupid people (and they tend to be the ones who don't ask questions, or ignore the answeres if they did ask).
Here is the direct link to the SCCA Improved Touring rules...
http://www.scca.com/_Filelibra...y.pdf
And the SCCA GCR in full...
http://www.scca.com/_Filelibra...s.pdf
The GCR has the basic stuff - safety gear, flagging, procedures, etc
The IT Category document has the specific class rules and listing of classified cars.
Page 29 of the IT specs has the listing for 94-99 Acura Integra GS/LS/RS. The rest of the document has the engine, suspension, etc preparation rules that apply to all cars in the class.
As for the basics of what you can and cannot do...
1. If it does not explicitly give you permission to do something, you cannot.
2. Read the book for the rest
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From: Charleston, SC, USA
Re: Help on race car build (jar)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jar »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I guess an LS is the way to go. Sorry for frustrating you guys, I just want to make sure I do things right.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, if you're planning to run IT, an LS is what you want.. in honda challenge, you could've used the tub swap rule(I think, and i know I'll be corrected if I'm wrong), but it sounds like IT is your primary concern..
I was the opposite.. I built an H2 car and am now just throwing it into the regional ITE class(ITR's have no place else to go within IT) for the heck of it..
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I guess an LS is the way to go. Sorry for frustrating you guys, I just want to make sure I do things right.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, if you're planning to run IT, an LS is what you want.. in honda challenge, you could've used the tub swap rule(I think, and i know I'll be corrected if I'm wrong), but it sounds like IT is your primary concern..
I was the opposite.. I built an H2 car and am now just throwing it into the regional ITE class(ITR's have no place else to go within IT) for the heck of it..
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Re: Help on race car build (mstewar)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah, if you're planning to run IT, an LS is what you want.. in honda challenge, you could've used the tub swap rule(I think, and i know I'll be corrected if I'm wrong), but it sounds like IT is your primary concern..
I was the opposite.. I built an H2 car and am now just throwing it into the regional ITE class(ITR's have no place else to go within IT) for the heck of it..</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, to be honest, I was hoping to have something that could be competitive in both ITE and HC. It looks like I am sort of stuck with one or the other. I'll probably go the route of the LS for right now since it seems to be cheaper. I guess maybe after this season I'll look into the tub swap rule, and decide which way I want to build.
I was the opposite.. I built an H2 car and am now just throwing it into the regional ITE class(ITR's have no place else to go within IT) for the heck of it..</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, to be honest, I was hoping to have something that could be competitive in both ITE and HC. It looks like I am sort of stuck with one or the other. I'll probably go the route of the LS for right now since it seems to be cheaper. I guess maybe after this season I'll look into the tub swap rule, and decide which way I want to build.
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Re: Help on race car build (jar)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jar »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well, to be honest, I was hoping to have something that could be competitive in both ITE and HC. It looks like I am sort of stuck with one or the other </TD></TR></TABLE>
No you're not. If you keep the LS motor, you will be competitive in ITA and HC(4)
Well, to be honest, I was hoping to have something that could be competitive in both ITE and HC. It looks like I am sort of stuck with one or the other </TD></TR></TABLE>
No you're not. If you keep the LS motor, you will be competitive in ITA and HC(4)
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From: Charleston, SC, USA
Re: Help on race car build (jar)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jar »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well, to be honest, I was hoping to have something that could be competitive in both ITE and HC. It looks like I am sort of stuck with one or the other. I'll probably go the route of the LS for right now since it seems to be cheaper. I guess maybe after this season I'll look into the tub swap rule, and decide which way I want to build. </TD></TR></TABLE>
actually, the LS would be an H4 car and probably be a lot of fun.. lots of good racing in that class.. then again, you could always come play with us in H2 or go to H3.. or H1.. or HU.. (many options)
Well, to be honest, I was hoping to have something that could be competitive in both ITE and HC. It looks like I am sort of stuck with one or the other. I'll probably go the route of the LS for right now since it seems to be cheaper. I guess maybe after this season I'll look into the tub swap rule, and decide which way I want to build.
</TD></TR></TABLE>actually, the LS would be an H4 car and probably be a lot of fun.. lots of good racing in that class.. then again, you could always come play with us in H2 or go to H3.. or H1.. or HU.. (many options)