Hadn't seen anything about this in here and was just curious what everybody's thoughts on this are:

http://autos.msn.com/research/...sub=1

Basically it's the new hybrid version of the 2005 Silverado.

the 2wd gets 19/21 city/highway mileage apparently(non-towing one can assume).. 4wd drops it to 17/19.. not that bad for a full size gas powered truck though.. think it'll be reliable and strong enough to tow regularly with?

 

What I also heard about this truck is once you get to the track you can run the motor as a generator and it already has plugs built into the truck... kinda of a cool feature

 

Yes, it can be run as a generator when at the track.

The brochure I saw a while back I believe showed a tow rating closer to 5000 # with the hybrid drivetrain.

 

I think they listed something like 6700lbs standard towing capacity on the website.. which would be in line with the previous models, IIRC..

 

Interesting...

It will definately get better MPG than my denali

**BudMan just came back from the trailer store (bought all the hitch/brake crap to hook to the tow package...**

See you next Friday in St Louis!!! (Denali's first attempt at towing the race kaa)

 

Power is good (295H/335T)

Fuel Economy is very good (17/19 or 18/21)

Towing is more then enough for your app (6700-7700 2WD & 7400 4WD) Although I'm not quite sure I understand how that rating works. :scratches head:

Only thing is it looks like the Auto is the only choice, which isn't a bad thing, but having a manual option is nice.

My big concern is is it going to drop in down to single digit MPG's just like most Gassers do when towing?

If not, go for it. Looks like a pretty good buy if it's a daily driver commuter.

If not though, you can buy a **** load of Turbo Boosted, Stump Pulling, TORQUE for that money and they aren't even bad to daily drive. Hell for that money you could buy a 2-3 year old fully loaded model. I dunno call me bias.

Plus there are Biodiesel places all over now. I just switched to B100 recently and feel all warm and fuzzy.

 

i'm not quite in the market... yet.. but probably will be this summer.. this seemed like a nice alternative to getting a diesel for towing and a POS daily driver to save on gas though..

that is definitely a very good question about the MPG while towing.. I wonder if any dealerships could be talked into giving it a try to find out.. maybe someone will do a review on it and try..

Edit: Budman, have fun wiring.. and see you next week!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that is definitely a very good question about the MPG while towing.. I wonder if any dealerships could be talked into giving it a try to find out..</TD></TR></TABLE>

When I do end up buying a brand new truck from a dealer, the dealer I buy from is the one that lets me test drive with my trailer hooked up.

Granted you probably really couldn't do any type of long term drive, but I bet most new trucks now have those nifty little "MPG METERS" and you could at least do a vague basis off that I suppose.

More so I would want a feel of it towing.

 

I would like to see better MPG than that..

In my 2001 Tahoe 4x4 5.3L(I daily driver/tow with it) I average 17 MPG without towing and 13MPG towing my car on a open trailer. My total towing weight is about 6500 for trailer, car and cargo..

 

Unless something in the technology has changed dramatically in the last three years, it takes more than a gallon of petro fuels to produce a gallon of "farmed" biodiesel. I'm not talking about recovered "greasel" from the french fry vats but the stuff that federal tax dollars are subsidizing through ADM and other commercial farming interests.

A hybrid tow vehicle would be very interesting. It only takes a small fraction of the total power available to keep a truck and trailer up to speed on flat ground so I wouldn't be surprised if mileage was in fact a lot better than with a typical powertrain.

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A hybrid tow vehicle would be very interesting. It only takes a small fraction of the total power available to keep a truck and trailer up to speed on flat ground so I wouldn't be surprised if mileage was in fact a lot better than with a typical powertrain.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll be the voice of decent, here. The real mileage benefit of a hybrid drivetrain comes from regenerative braking, not from efficiency at speed on level ground. For outright mileage on the open road, a diesel of similar power will be the most efficient. In the city, the tables are turned.

If you're just concerned about being green, and are honest with yourself about your driving habits, the hybrid might make more sense for a daily driver that tows occasionally. If it really tows a lot, or you have a 45 mile commute in Utah, get a diesel.

As an aside, the keynote speaker at the LA Auto Show this year was the Chairman of VW and talked a lot about all these trick research projects for Hydrogen, natural gas and fuel cell type vehicles. He basically poo-pooed them all and said that if a vehicle does not burn a fuel that "is liquid at ambient temperature" it will not likely have any future in mass market for the next 20-25 years. I couldn't agree more. That's a hell of a lot of liquid fuel gas stations we've got out there. This is the thinking behind VWs commitment to Diesel engines. Coming soon to a driveway near you...

 

If anyone is looking at a new GM vehicle as a daily driver or tow vehicle PM me and I will get you a coupon good at any GM dealership (I think it is pretty close to dealer cost).

 

I don't think this truck is a "true hybrid" with regenerative braking, batteries and electric motors.

I think it simply has fast-start technology so that it can shut off the engine at stoplights and whatnot, and they maybe tried to get the AFRs a bit lean to get the highway mileage up. Notice how the highway and city mileage are so close.


I could be wrong, but that's what I seem to remember when there was talk of a Chevy hybrid truck.

 

Diesel engines when they run Biodiesel have similar MPG. When you buy a newly diesgined vehicle there are usually flaws and unless you have on-star or know much about the technology probably won't get much help when it breaks down. I like th generator thats awsome all trucks should have it

 

I'm aware Biodiesel costs more (as if diesel doesn't cost enough already).

I'm also aware Biodiesel does not increase you MPG.

I mentioned it (more jokingly then anything) based on the "greener" comment as yes Biodiesel does clean out your fuel system (judging by my 1st fuel filter change after switching) and all but eliminate any black smoke (even with a 4" exhaust and no cat). Plus I guess it's better supporting Middle-American then Middle-East? Seems to be the most popular slogan for switching.

Kurt, enlighten me more on the "farmed" bio-diesel vs the regular "greasel" that I am most familiar with ala B20 (20 greasel 80 petro) and B100 (100 greasel).

 

All GM cars have 24/7 Roadside Assistance.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Hammond &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I mentioned it (more jokingly then anything) based on the "greener" comment</TD></TR></TABLE>

I had put it in quotes in the first place because I wasn't convinced how much "greener" it really was.. but I guess any increase in mileage is an improvement..

around here, regular unleaded pump gas is 20-25 cents cheaper than diesel.. how much more fuel efficient are these biodiesels? heck, I haven't even seen a station that has the stuff and i live in corn country..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Def &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't think this truck is a "true hybrid" with regenerative braking, batteries and electric motors.

I think it simply has fast-start technology so that it can shut off the engine at stoplights and whatnot, and they maybe tried to get the AFRs a bit lean to get the highway mileage up. Notice how the highway and city mileage are so close.


I could be wrong, but that's what I seem to remember when there was talk of a Chevy hybrid truck.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what I remember reading about this one. It gets fuel savings by stopping the engine at stoplights. The electric motor never actually drives the vehicle, so it doesn't qualify for the hybrid tax breaks. It is essentially a truck with a generator. But any increase in MPG is good

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I had put it in quotes in the first place because I wasn't convinced how much "greener" it really was.. but I guess any increase in mileage is an improvement..

around here, regular unleaded pump gas is 20-25 cents cheaper than diesel.. how much more fuel efficient are these biodiesels? heck, I haven't even seen a station that has the stuff and i live in corn country..</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know. That's all I was saying was the only improvements with Biodiesel are cleans out the fuel system and continues to run much cleaner. Produced in the US instead of overseas. Smells like the Fair when it burns. (Think elephant ears and funnel cakes). Adds lubricity. Pretty much the basic ones. There is one about 15 min from my house.

 

Hybrid technology, like flu vaccine, is great. If everyone else buys it, I probably don't have to.

 

As has been stated, you will see little to zero economy benefit with this truck.

It is a "mild" hybrid, with a standard IC engine coupled to a small electric motor that resides where your flywheel would. It acts as a starter, booster-motor, and generator. The vehicle NEVER operates on the electric motor alone (as with a parallel hybrid system such as the Prius) so it does not save fuel in that respect. By adding torque during launch situations as well as shutting off the engine at stoplights, it will reduce the demand on the gas engine. But you rarely see those benefits whilst towing.

Even true parallel hybrids (Prius, Escape) get better "city" mileage than "highway" due to the benefits gained by idle shutdown and regenerative braking. Cruising down the freeway gives little to no opportunity for batteries to charge, add to that the power requirement to punch a truck+trailer sized hole in the air at 70 MPH, you see no benefit.

I think the best functionality of the Silverado hybrid is as a work truck that operates around a city and needs to generate power for tools.

The diesel engine is the best "highway" efficiency cycle due to the lack of a throttle. When crusing down the freeway in a gas engine, your throttle is barely open, causing a large vacuum in the intake and subsequent losses of volumetric efficiency. With the diesel and its lack of a throttle, there is no such part-load loss.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allenp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The diesel engine is the best "highway" efficiency cycle due to the lack of a throttle. When crusing down the freeway in a gas engine, your throttle is barely open, causing a large vacuum in the intake and subsequent losses of volumetric efficiency. With the diesel and its lack of a throttle, there is no such part-load loss.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, what he said.

Another plus to the diesel as a "green" powertrain is the fuel flexibility that engine will tolerate compared to a spark ignition engine. Much of the work in alternative fuels is going toward synthetic diesel fuel blends. Some are bio based, some use natural gas or hydrogen chemically bonded in liquid fuels. All of these derivative fuels are diesel-based. Or rather, designed for compression ignition. None are the holy grail of green fuels the eco ***** would have us waist money on, but they are much closer to practical in terms of current engine/vehicle technology, existing infrastructure and the need to move away from middle-east oil dependency. Europe is way ahead of the US in terms of acceptance of diesels. 50% of all Volkwagons sold in the UK & Europe are diesels. The US is behind both in terms of fuel quality (at least until next year) and acceptance in the market place. Few older consumers are willing to forget what GM did with diesels in the late 70s and early 80s. All that will be changing.

Later this month, I'll be driving a Civic 1.7 CTDi SPORT diesel in Portugal. I don't expect it to be better than an Si. But I do expect it to perform like a Honda. I'll post impressions here, if there's an interest.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Unless something in the technology has changed dramatically in the last three years, it takes more than a gallon of petro fuels to produce a gallon of "farmed" biodiesel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So what's it take to produce a gallon of gas/diesel?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Later this month, I'll be driving a Civic 1.7 CTDi SPORT diesel in Portugal. I don't expect it to be better than an Si. But I do expect it to perform like a Honda. I'll post impressions here, if there's an interest.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not sure if I'm in the minority on this one, but I'd like to hear your impressions

Christian, who rode in a new-ish BMW 3 Series Turbo Diesel in the UK last year and was very impressed by it's un-"dieselish" behavior...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Hammond &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm aware Biodiesel costs more (as if diesel doesn't cost enough already).</TD></TR></TABLE>

You make your own for free and only pay for filterting it, its very easy to make.

[qoute]All GM cars have 24/7 Roadside Assistance.[/qoute]

Well if your hauling a enclosed trailer you better hope they can fix what is wrong with your truck or you got quite a situation. 24/7 road assitance certaintly doesn't come to help immediately.