OK we put adjustable coil overs in the 90 Civic Hatch. What ride height should we start with for HPDE??? Should we be looking for level suspension arms?

Question 2. Is it worth swapping the front brakes with those from the 4D Civic of same generation??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Grumpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...Should we be looking for level suspension arms?
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You hear this alot (referring to LCA's). You also notice that on many Honda/Acura's it takes a higher than IT legal minimum ride height to achieve it.

Why do people think this is important? Because they think they want to keep the roll centers in the kosher zone.

Great. Keep the roll centers up. Keep the center of gravity up. What are you really accomplishing?

I say run the ride height at the legal (or sane) minimum and spring for it. Then drive around those other guys.

Scott, who has paid to hear things he didn't agree with just so he could hear the reasoning behind it...all I really know is that just about everybody thinks just about everybody else is an idiot...

Edit - speaking of idiot, you said HPDE, and I went off into never land again - but I still wouldn't worry too much about it. That'd be like setting the rake of the chassis on the basis of your seatback angle. Hey, I like that - gonna hafta put it in my book.


Modified by RR98ITR at 5:33 PM 3/1/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Grumpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Question 2. Is it worth swapping the front brakes with those from the 4D Civic of same generation??</TD></TR></TABLE>

If the car is going to be doing IT type racing any time in future thats an illegal modification. IMO if the enigne is stock then some good pads, some good fluid and maybe even removing the dust sheilds works great.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">removing the dust sheilds works great.</TD></TR></TABLE>

OT sorry : Maybe you can help me out with this Jimmy. If i understand correctly, I should remove dust shields from my front brake conversion before installing it ?

thanks

 

Toss them in teh trash and dont look back

 

^^Absolutely

As for ride height, a good starting point that will be low, but in the "sane" realm would be to get around 5" from the jacking points to the ground. The key is to make sure that you have plenty of suspension travel (for those that don't have a double adjustable setup and sacrifice spring preload for ride height) and don't have to sacrifice any spring preload adjustments.

The brake swap is really up to you. If you have a stock motor and are on tracks that don't require a number of high speed quick stops, then good pads should take you a long way. I like to try to keep the stock stuff unitl I really have a problem with them (aka multiple brake fires, or bad fade).

 

Personal experience is to set the car at 5" on all 4 corners. The measurement is taken at the 4 jacking points on a level surface such as an alignment machine &lt;G&gt;. This will put you close to the minimum for SCCA Improved Touring and some other classes. Then again, if this is your first event you will want to concentrate on driving skill more than speed.

 

you might also want to look into some tires for the car... if its the same hatch Tony was driving around VIR, he'll need new tires on that thing anyway.

my 1990 CRX Si just runs Azenis and Carbo tech XP8s for HPDE... and i've had koni and ground control sitting in the basement for over a year now (future set up to be 400/550)

 

Yes, Tony's Hatch.

Have access to brake parts, so I'll probably do the swap. I believe that you can never overbrake a car. Future upgrade to DOHC ZC motor.

Tires have been ordered.

Will try ride height at 5".

Don't give a rat's *** about anybody's rules other than safety rules. Car is a street/HPDE only car. If we need a race car, we will purpose build another as a race car. This car is personal enjoyment only.

 

if you have the parts for the brake swap and you want to do it... i would, its not like its a "bad" over kill. do you know the spring rates on the coil overs? my only issue with DOHC ZC swaps is people have issues finding axels (if i remember right).

i doubt i'll ever get rid of my A6 motor... when a spare head, intake manifold, TB, fuel rail, and injectors costs $35 and a block costs 50-100... you cant beat it!

I think you guys will really like the EF as a daily/track toy!

 

oh and on the brake swap issue... you need to look up online to see if the 4D brakes are any bigger... if they arent i'd just keep them around if the calipers fail or go bad and just wait until then... and rebuild the 4D ones while you wait.

 

Where are you measuring 5"?? from the bottom of the seam where the jack actually would touch the car, or the bottom of the tub, where SCCA takes its measurement???

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jc836 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Then again, if this is your first event you will want to concentrate on driving skill more than speed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Trust me, track time is not an issue.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jc836 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Then again, if this is your first event you will want to concentrate on driving skill more than speed.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Now thats Funny... Grumpy... keep the car stock, man you and Tony need more track time... ehehehehehehehe

 

Much will depend on the wheel and tire package and dampers you plan to run.

I have NO problems getting to the IT minimum 5" ride height with my '91 hatch because I have some of Lee's pimpy shortened shocks and super squatty 225/45/13 tires. I could probably go as low as 4.5 inches and still be just fine.

But the ITA guys do struggle getting down to 5" with the bigger tires (Hoosier and Toyo). The ITA sized tires, in both 205 and 225 sizes are a good 2" taller than my tires and tend to rub somewhere if the car gets too low.
For all you STS autocross guys that are hovering over the "reply" button getting ready to tell me that you are at 5" with 205/15 Azenis and are having no issues... Remember that you are not steady state loading the suspension through long sweeping corners at 90+ mph. This makes a HUGE difference. A setup that is fine for autocross can cheese grate a set of tires on a road course.

As far as leveling the suspension arms... Don't worry about that.

 

4D has larger rotor and beefier calipers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Grumpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Question 2. Is it worth swapping the front brakes with those from the 4D Civic of same generation??</TD></TR></TABLE>

As long as they are 4D EX brakes. DX/LX are identical to the Si brakes. If you happen to have these laying around go for it. If not, IMHO I wouldn't go out of my way to find and purchase them.

On the brakes I would do P+'s, cheapo rotors, Good fluid and decent street tires and also OEM shoes and maybe resurface the drums if they have never been touched.

The main thing is adjust, adjust, ADJUST the rear brakes. It's critical on these cars to keep those rears adjusted.

I flat spotted the **** out of azenis in my old 2480lb 99 Si so I doubt you would have a problem flat spotting anything short of an R compound with XP anything on the hatch. So I wouldn't go that aggressive.

 

only the 90-91 4door EX has the bigger brakes though (which I'm sure you already know). If you found a set, then I ended up getting a set of 90-91 SiR front brakes (which are the same size, except for the wheel bearing), because the EX ones were so hard to find.

The 90-93 integra front brakes also fit, but the knuckle is longer and throws off suspension geometry slightly.


oh, and make sure you swap the MC/booster with a 15/16" one. its a good difference in feel/performance with the larger front brakes.

 

Have EX 4d brakes in hand and at no cost.

Will be putting 91 Si rear discs on car to eliminate adjusting issue.

Thanks for input.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Grumpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Trust me, track time is not an issue.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well this is Tony driving

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Grumpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have EX 4d brakes in hand and at no cost.

Will be putting 91 Si rear discs on car to eliminate adjusting issue.

Thanks for input.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well there you go then. I'd run P+ all around or maybe a P+/Bobcat combo depending on suspension choice and tire choice. New cheap rotors and fresh HD fluid of your choice. Should be MORE then enough for going out whenever you feel like it.

 

The boy gets about 6 hours of track time per weekend.

 

Lets talk rotors.

$45 per American Made
$17 per China

I'm not really secure with the quality control of the China rotors.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Grumpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lets talk rotors.

$45 per American Made
$17 per China</TD></TR></TABLE>

On a lightweight, low powered car it wont make any difference. The 'more expensive' rotors I've used from Carbotech ($50, centric brand) cracked faster than the $23 autozone specials. I was getting about 6ish weekends on a set of pads and rotors on the ITR (rotors were ready to pop by the time pads wore out)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On a lightweight, low powered car it wont make any difference. The 'more expensive' rotors I've used from Carbotech ($50, centric brand) cracked faster than the $23 autozone specials. I was getting about 6ish weekends on a set of pads and rotors on the ITR (rotors were ready to pop by the time pads wore out)</TD></TR></TABLE>

just be sure not to take .RJ's mom for any joyrides....in that case you will need air brakes and parachute. That is assuming you ever get up to speed.