Ok, here is the deal. I am on my friends account because my stupid password is not working....Anyway. Here goes. I plan on building a B20VTEC to put in a del sol which im building for auto-x....now here is 1 of my questions: Toda has a piston kit made for the b20 but to be used with ITR crank and rods for optimal rod ratio.....has anyone heard of this? Would a crank girdle be neccessary? and what are the differences between ITR crank and say B20 crank or a GSR crank. and with the different rod ratios that are obtained with the different cranks, what are some of the problems i could run into with valve to piston clearance etc.....I just would like to know what to run on the bottom end for reliable performance for autoX without breaking the bank... any info that you guys could give me about this would be great....I have searched for this stuff but not sure anyone has ever talked about it before....I do know enough about this stuff just not the actually differences between these cranks and what each one would do for a B20VTEC build-up. Thanks in advance for all the info.
This is H-T user "AIM Sponsored Driver"


Modified by TrojanMan01 at 6:51 AM 2/26/2005

 

I would like to see what people have to say!!

 

Ihave a 99 civic si coupe the motor is being assembled right now. I was just wondering if anyone would have any idea what kinda numbers id be putting out. i've read lots of articles and forums some say b20 franks normally put out 200 with just the head swap some say more. at http://www.importreview.com/d_2.0.html they got b20 franks puttin out up to 234 hp with less mods than my motor. they also have a 200 hp si coupe @ 200 hp runnin 13.2 that sound about right? heres a list of my mods below. if you wanna check out any pics heres the link http://www.xanga.com/hybrid_syndicate

Engine Mods: (B20Vtec) Built 98 CRV Block, 99 SI Transmission, 99 SI ported & polished head, Crane Stage 2 Cam Shafts, Super Tech valves, Super Tech Dual Titanium valve springs, Super Tech Titanium retainers, AEM Tru Time Adjustable Cam Gears, Apexi Vtec Controller, AEM Short ram intake, 70mm Throttle body, Skunk 2 Intake Manifold, NGK Spark Plug Wires, Zex Plugs, AEM Fuel pressure Regulator, JE Stroker Kit ( JE 11:1 Compression Pistons, Eagle Rods, Eagle Forge Steel Crank),Golden Eagle Oil Line Kit, Jegs Fuel Pressure Gauge, ACT Street Light 12lbs Flywheel, ACT Stage 2 Xtreme Pressure Plate Clutch, DC Sport 4-1 Headers, Hi-Flow Cat,Greddy Evo Exhuast System, Pro 1 Short Shifter, Enjo Urethane Motor Mounts
Exterior: VIS OEM Carbon Fiber hood, VIS Carbon Fiber Trunk, R34 front bumper, Blitz Sideskirts, Buddy Club Rear

 

Ok, now wait a minute....Didnt I post up this thread to answer some of my own questions....Now if I am correct, "you do" have the ability to put up your own thread and ask your own questions. I am asking for advice from people who know what they are talking about, not asking everybody to come to my thread and get answers to questions that you can get answered in your own thread. Not to flame or anything but jeeze! Really!? Now, you could have worked this out a lot better.
H-T Member: (AIM Sponsored Driver)

 

bump for my buddy mike

 

Im bumping up this post cause it is mine. Had to make new account. But I guess no one knows that much about this stuff.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A.I.M Sponsored Driver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im bumping up this post cause it is mine. Had to make new account. But I guess no one knows that much about this stuff.</TD></TR></TABLE>

everyone knows about this stuff, just nobody is replying because people have talked about it a million times.

use the search function

spend a good 30 minutes searching and you will find all your answers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by irev210 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

everyone knows about this stuff

</TD></TR></TABLE>
I really doubt that even 5 out of 100 people on this site even know what rod ratio is.......So I did do lots of searching and there is nothing about using Type R crank and rods in a B20VTEC......Oh and also everyone on this site does the same budget B20VTEC setup as well with stock B20 crank and rods maybe some ARP rod bolts but thats about it.....Not everyone does it this way but it sure seems to be the norm around here....I just want to do something different and would like to get the best power out of a B20 with as many OEM Honda parts as I can use.

 

did you spend 30 minutes searching or do you just want someone to spoon feed you?

I would have answered your questions but you saying the answers arent in the archives is dumb.

You are just too lazy to search. I wont help you and I hope nobody else does.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TrojanMan01 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Oh and also everyone on this site does the same budget B20VTEC setup as well with stock B20 crank and rods maybe some ARP rod bolts but thats about it.....Not everyone does it this way but it sure seems to be the norm around here....I just want to do something different and would like to get the best power out of a B20 with as many OEM Honda parts as I can use.</TD></TR></TABLE>

just because it is R doesnt mean it will make more power

People use the LS/B20 crank because it makes more power and it is cheap, thats why it is the norm.

 

Using the Toda Pistons is both misguided and wasteful monetarily.
After you secure everything needed you'll get beat on the track by a stock block B20VTEC.

The differences between the ITR/GSR crankshaft and the LS/CRV is the stroke.

ITR/GSR = 87.2 mm stoke (GSR and ITR are the same except the counterweights)
LS/CRV = 89 mm stroke (Exact same ****)

So effectively putting an ITR/GSR crank in a B20 block is a waste of money.
It would probably be more cost effective to sleeve a GSR block to run 85mm Pistons.

This would effectively put you at 1979.46cc (close enough to 2.0) Displacement all while getting you a good Rod to Stroke ratio of 137.9mm/87.2mm = 1.58:1 r/s

Or just be bold and run the bad-*** 89mm Crank and increase the bore size.
To say 86mm (sleeved of course) and you'll be the kingpin with a 2068.14cc (2.1L)with the age old controversial R/S Ratio of 137mm/89mm = 1.54:1 r/s

Piston to valve clearance isn't an issue if the pistons you run are machined for use with VTEC sized valves.

A crank girdle is up for debate I didn't use one.
I've driven my setup for over 35,000 miles daily driven. No girdle, no oil squirters, and no sleeves.

It's only going to be as reliable as you make it.
Being paranoid and **** is a gift not a curse.

 

Good info, someone does their homework! Just like the creator of this topic should have! click the little search button and all of your desires will come true! -Jason

 

I really appreciate your info EG-B20vtec I just wanted to know either way to satisfy my own curiosity, thank you. Guess it all depends on how much $ I have. I just want to make sure i do it right that is why I ask these questions. H-T member A.I.M Sponsored Driver.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG-B20vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Using the Toda Pistons is both misguided and wasteful monetarily.
After you secure everything needed you'll get beat on the track by a stock block B20VTEC.

The differences between the ITR/GSR crankshaft and the LS/CRV is the stroke.

ITR/GSR = 87.2 mm stoke (GSR and ITR are the same except the counterweights)
LS/CRV = 89 mm stroke (Exact same ****)

So effectively putting an ITR/GSR crank in a B20 block is a waste of money.
It would probably be more cost effective to sleeve a GSR block to run 85mm Pistons.

This would effectively put you at 1979.46cc (close enough to 2.0) Displacement all while getting you a good Rod to Stroke ratio of 137.9mm/87.2mm = 1.58:1 r/s

Or just be bold and run the bad-*** 89mm Crank and increase the bore size.
To say 86mm (sleeved of course) and you'll be the kingpin with a 2068.14cc (2.1L)with the age old controversial R/S Ratio of 137mm/89mm = 1.54:1 r/s

Piston to valve clearance isn't an issue if the pistons you run are machined for use with VTEC sized valves.

A crank girdle is up for debate I didn't use one.
I've driven my setup for over 35,000 miles daily driven. No girdle, no oil squirters, and no sleeves.

It's only going to be as reliable as you make it.
Being paranoid and **** is a gift not a curse.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

You have some good points however to say that putting a Gsr/Itr crank into a b20 is a complete waste of money is not true. Destroking a motor in order to achieve a better rod/stroke ratio is a good idea considering half the people on here want to rev to 9000rpm! V-tech BABY&lt;----(i know i put the 'H' in for kicks ) Anyhow, in all serious-ness, you can't argue with the grand master of these ls/b20 vtec setups....he is currently running this setup. check the link!

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=595138

 

I also thank you for this info and I understand that decreasing the stroke in a B20 block with a ITR/GSR crank would allow a little more rev. but it kinda seems pointless to do it in a B20 block instead of the LS block because the B20 has thinner cylinder walls. It would just be better to take a LS/GSR block sleeve it and bore it to 84-86mm and use the ITR/GSR for the better rod to stroke ratio....the good R/S ratio will give me the revs as long as bottem end is balanced and the bore will give me the torque......hmmmmm.....what a dilema. Thanks for all of your info guys.

 

rod bolts mike rod bolts!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TrojanMan01 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, here is the deal. I am on my friends account because my stupid password is not working....Anyway. Here goes. I plan on building a B20VTEC to put in a del sol which im building for auto-x....now here is 1 of my questions: Toda has a piston kit made for the b20 but to be used with ITR crank and rods for optimal rod ratio.....has anyone heard of this? Would a crank girdle be neccessary? and what are the differences between ITR crank and say B20 crank or a GSR crank. and with the different rod ratios that are obtained with the different cranks, what are some of the problems i could run into with valve to piston clearance etc.....I just would like to know what to run on the bottom end for reliable performance for autoX without breaking the bank... any info that you guys could give me about this would be great....I have searched for this stuff but not sure anyone has ever talked about it before....I do know enough about this stuff just not the actually differences between these cranks and what each one would do for a B20VTEC build-up. Thanks in advance for all the info.
This is H-T user "AIM Sponsored Driver"


Modified by TrojanMan01 at 6:51 AM 2/26/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

He said he searched in his post look at the bold spots in his post!!!

 

bump

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by irev210 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">did you spend 30 minutes searching or do you just want someone to spoon feed you?

I would have answered your questions but you saying the answers arent in the archives is dumb.

You are just too lazy to search. I wont help you and I hope nobody else does.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what the hell is the need to be so damn rude, you are the reason why this forum sucks sometimes, just answer the question rather then getting pissed and wishing death on him. you suck.......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4DooRGiSzer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

what the hell is the need to be so damn rude, you are the reason why this forum sucks sometimes, just answer the question rather then getting pissed and wishing death on him. you suck.......</TD></TR></TABLE>

What he said

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4DooRGiSzer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

what the hell is the need to be so damn rude, you are the reason why this forum sucks sometimes, just answer the question rather then getting pissed and wishing death on him. you suck.......</TD></TR></TABLE>


I wasnt wishing death, just saying I wouldnt help him.

If this forum sucks, why do you bother posting?

 

sorry to turn this thread into an argument.......

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by irev210 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


I wasnt wishing death, just saying I wouldnt help him.

If this forum sucks, why do you bother posting?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It only sucks when people try to get good answers to their questions, and people like you feel the need to be rude for absolutly no reason. otherwise, i love honda-tech. No reason at all for you to respond if your not going to be helpful in a positive way....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4DooRGiSzer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sorry to turn this thread into an argument.......
It only sucks when people try to get good answers to their questions, and people like you feel the need to be rude for absolutly no reason. otherwise, i love honda-tech. No reason at all for you to respond if your not going to be helpful in a positive way....</TD></TR></TABLE>

you havent answered his question, which means you probably cant.

so you dont know how annoying it gets to answer the same question(like this) 2-3 times a day. which also implies that if he did search he would find tons of info.

his questions are pretty much 'general' knowledge on this site. and by that i mean they have been answered probably a minimum of 10 times, so if he searched and read he would not only get his answer, but he would learn why instead of just being told what/which is better.

and to be clear, to search doent mean to type in "b20vtec toda pistons kit, what will it do" ---&gt;nothing, aw damn(i know thats over the top) but to search doesnt always involve the search function. just read through any post that seems like it might have anything to do with your answer, becuase a lot of them cover more than the specific question.

pick up a honda builders hand book and all your questions will be answered

now i try and help you with a few of the questions you have;

seems like your general qustion is about the different crank stroke and bore. i dont know the exaact numbers and i dont wantto look them up, but in general a ls/b20 crank will produce a longer stroke, which is the whole point of a ls/b20vtec. so if you want to do a gsr/itr crank in a b20 you would really be missing the point. if you want to go down that road, just sleeve a gsr/itr.

now, your valve to pistons clearence.... again, hard to answer because of how vauge it is.... you dont even have a set up chosen how would we being to help you with valve clearances? but, again, in general vavlve clearances can be taken care of, however i dont believe with any of the setups you listed you would have any.

bottom line, its hard to help when you donthave a specific question. and im sorry if you think you asked a specific question, or it seems clear in your head, but its not.

so, do lots of reading, get a good base under your feet and then come back with a very specific question and let the gurus help you out(i am not one )


Modified by envision2teg at 1:21 PM 3/10/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by envision2teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you havent answered his question, which means you probably cant.

so you dont know how annoying it gets to answer the same question(like this) 2-3 times a day. which also implies that if he did search he would find tons of info.

his questions are pretty much 'general' knowledge on this site. and by that i mean they have been answered probably a minimum of 10 times, so if he searched and read he would not only get his answer, but he would learn why instead of just being told what/which is better.

pick up a honda builders hand book and all your questions will be answered </TD></TR></TABLE>

I was there when he searched!! Mike (AIM Driver) has spent a lot of time on this!! He just wanted to see if anyone knew anything about his ???s Not everyones topics in the past take care of everyones ???s in the future!!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TrojanMan01 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, here is the deal. I am on my friends account because my stupid password is not working....Anyway. Here goes. I plan on building a B20VTEC to put in a del sol which im building for auto-x....now here is 1 of my questions: Toda has a piston kit made for the b20 but to be used with ITR crank and rods for optimal rod ratio.....has anyone heard of this? Would a crank girdle be neccessary? and what are the differences between ITR crank and say B20 crank or a GSR crank. and with the different rod ratios that are obtained with the different cranks, what are some of the problems i could run into with valve to piston clearance etc.....I just would like to know what to run on the bottom end for reliable performance for autoX without breaking the bank... any info that you guys could give me about this would be great....I have searched for this stuff but not sure anyone has ever talked about it before....I do know enough about this stuff just not the actually differences between these cranks and what each one would do for a B20VTEC build-up. Thanks in advance for all the info.
This is H-T user "AIM Sponsored Driver"


Modified by TrojanMan01 at 6:51 AM 2/26/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by "SPANKY" &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I was there when he searched!! Mike (AIM Driver) has spent a lot of time on this!! He just wanted to see if anyone knew anything about his ???s Not everyones topics in the past take care of everyones ???s in the future!!

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i added more while you were writing this.

but your still wrong. his general answers are out there, then it is up to him to be able to apply the knowledge

edit: i searched for about 5 mins:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=135946
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=458812
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=594292
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=314256
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=313280


Modified by envision2teg at 1:33 PM 3/10/2005