I searched, but no dice.

Anyone have any hard facts about these?? I know there are a number of reputable engine builders using them, but are they really worth it??

I'm building an ITA CRX motor. $170.00 for Pistons, with rings. Should I spend the extra $169.00 for a set of total seal gapless rings??

I'm not cheap...... I'll spend the money, but insist on getting value. If they give me a couple of extra horses and extend the life of the motor, I'll consider it money well spent.

And, if your answer is "no way, they're crap", then, what should I use?? Stick with the "Sealed Power" oem replacment stuff??

Thanks all,

Jon

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IM "Tom Blaney".

He's a reputable Honda Challenge race engine builder that would probably have an opinion for you.

 

DonF or Rocket as well.

 

Tom is one of the "reputable builders" that I speak of. David Vizard is another one.

I still can't help but feel that if conventional rings are so bad, why does every (and I mean EVERY) new car come with "conventional" rings?

Still wonder-ring,

Jon

 

there have been problems with TotalSeal rings either not seating, or sending the wrong rings.
Some (reputable) builders have stopped using them altogether, while (equally reputable) others still use them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SJR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there have been problems with TotalSeal rings either not seating, or sending the wrong rings.
Some (reputable) builders have stopped using them altogether, while (equally reputable) others still use them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed. I have a friend who just built his H22 with TotalSeal rings and they would not seat. Now he has found plenty of information showing that others have found the same problems. He should have researched before he bought!!

I am plenty happy with the Topline pistons/rigns I bought for my H4 engine. In my opinion you can't beat $120 for a set that seem to be oem quality.

 

I have them in one of my engines. They take forever to seat in. Just a wag, but it took almost twice as long as the oem rings. They seem to work well once they are seated.

BTW, the only reason we used them is because the oem rings from Honda weren't gonna make it in time. I definitely prefer oem for this part.

 

Everybody I know just uses OEM rings.

 

Yes I have discontinued using Total Seal rings since I had trouble with two possibly three sets of rings from them. I use to use them exclusivly in all of the motors I built (from stock to full tilt GT4 Toyota) and didn't have trouble. But with the latest round of problems and the poor quality and increased price I have opted out.

 

I used the a set of total seal rings in a B18C1 that i had and i would never use them again. I had an engine builder assemble the bottom end on it while i sent the head out to get re-done. I used the total seal rings and had it bored .25 over and used JDM p73 pistons. I broke the engine as instructed and did not use synthetic oil ect.. The rings never set in and the thing just blew smoke like a son of a bitch. I took the engine apart after 2000 miles to install factory pistons. When i saw the top compression rings i **** a brick. They have no streagth to them what so ever. I always thought that the compression rings were just beveled at the ends so that they over lapped at the ends. However there were two very thin (about as thick as the oil control rings) rings that were just had the gaps spaced out. these two rings were then installed in the top compression ring land. The second ring was just an average compression ring. The combustion chambers were now full of carbon deposits, so i had to get the head cleaned again. I honed the bottom and installed the factory rings and have had no problems at all. Thanks to Total Seal rings and maybee a lack of research i had to build my engine twice. So please learn from my mistake, it was not a fun one.

 

The theory behind them is good, More compresion. The engine guy who built mine said he used them all the time in V8's and had never had a problem. Maybee they just cant take the high rpms. But then again i never even got a chance to rev my engine when they were installed. Maybee its a big V8 guy joke

 

we also had big problems with total seal rings on a d16a6. would not seat properly. basically a big waste of time for us.

 

Add me to the list of people who have used them in the past but am not using them currently. I am not a "reputable engine builder" but I have built half a dozen or so of my own race engines and a few street ones. I never had a seating problem when I used them but that was more than five years ago and changes may have occurred since then. I simply stopped using them because of my own thoughts backed up by others that a small, non really high compression, normally aspirated engine running at the rather high rpms (exactly like an ITA D16A6) that they do are really not likely to see much compression loss from the small ring gaps. The engines are turning such high rpms that I would think it would be really hard to quantify how much loss there really might be. The difference between theory and reality in a real world situation.

For the added expense, well nigh impossible to measure loss, and the number of engine builders I spoke to who were not using them, I decided to save the money on the rings and put it elsewhere.

 

Go with OE or NPR rings.

If you want NPR rings PM me.

 

Thank you, everyone, for the VERY helpful replies.

Left to my own devices, I probably would have used these....... now I'm glad I asked.

My preference would probably be to use OEM, but alas, they don't come in the size I need, so I'll be looking elsewhere.

Now, NPR rings...... are they file-to-fit? And would they be any better than the "Sealed Power" one that will come with my pistons??

As you may have guessed, I'm going to order "Sealed Power" pistons (cheapo replacements in a 1mm oversize). My past experience with "Topline" pistons was not good. I actually sent a set back because the core shift was so bad that the valve cutouts were visibly skewed from the longintudinal axis of the engine.... not good. This was for a different engine however, I ended up with Wiseco's, and was very happy with them.

This engine, however, will get cast pistons, I believe they're better for an IT engine.

Thanks again everyone - Rocket, yes, I am interested..... I'll e-mail you.

Jon