'99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time?
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,156
Likes: 0
From: Snellville, Ga, USA
'99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time?
So, as a racer who drives a miata, it is worth my while to troll the Spec Miata board for tech, even though I have more liberal rules than they do.
Apparently the '99+ cars have been added to SM, effective 3/1/05, and there is a huge uproar.
I have little opinion on this, but I find it entertaining. I know we have some SM racers on this board, and some folks that follow this kind of stuff.
What do you guys think of this development?
Apparently the '99+ cars have been added to SM, effective 3/1/05, and there is a huge uproar.
I have little opinion on this, but I find it entertaining. I know we have some SM racers on this board, and some folks that follow this kind of stuff.
What do you guys think of this development?
Trial User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,722
Likes: 0
From: Plotting My Revenge
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (RacerBowie)
This had to be done.
By 2006 the current SM crowd will have destroyed every pre-99 chassis on the planet.
Scott, Kidding. Sort of.
By 2006 the current SM crowd will have destroyed every pre-99 chassis on the planet.
Scott, Kidding. Sort of.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,156
Likes: 0
From: Snellville, Ga, USA
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (Catch 22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This had to be done.
By 2006 the current SM crowd will have destroyed every pre-99 chassis on the planet.
Scott, Kidding. Sort of.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't think you are kidding. They love them some pileups, that is for sure!
I wonder if I can ever get the '99+ Miatas classed as ITA cars? Might be time to write my first letter to the CRB or ITAC or CIA or XYZ or whatever.
By 2006 the current SM crowd will have destroyed every pre-99 chassis on the planet.
Scott, Kidding. Sort of.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't think you are kidding. They love them some pileups, that is for sure!
I wonder if I can ever get the '99+ Miatas classed as ITA cars? Might be time to write my first letter to the CRB or ITAC or CIA or XYZ or whatever.
Trial User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,722
Likes: 0
From: Plotting My Revenge
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (RacerBowie)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerBowie »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I wonder if I can ever get the '99+ Miatas classed as ITA cars? </TD></TR></TABLE>
No way in hell.
ITS.
I wonder if I can ever get the '99+ Miatas classed as ITA cars? </TD></TR></TABLE>
No way in hell.
ITS.
Continue on with the new project, I suppose.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Rule Changes!!
I can't believe the uproar caused when SCCA raised the minimum weight for 1000cc motorcycle engined cars in DSR to 1000lbs and lowered the minimum weight for 1300cc motorcycle engined cars in CSR to 1100lbs.
Why didn't they just add weight to the converted Atlantics that are currently dominating CSR!?!?!?!?
Of course the new 1000lb minimum in DSR means I'm now only 180lbs overweight for the class, rather than 280lbs overweight.
I don't care what the rules are, there will always be some yahoo spending 5x what everyone else is.
-Matt - with tongue firmly in cheek
Why didn't they just add weight to the converted Atlantics that are currently dominating CSR!?!?!?!?
Of course the new 1000lb minimum in DSR means I'm now only 180lbs overweight for the class, rather than 280lbs overweight.
I don't care what the rules are, there will always be some yahoo spending 5x what everyone else is.
-Matt - with tongue firmly in cheek
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,156
Likes: 0
From: Snellville, Ga, USA
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (Catch 22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No way in hell.
ITS.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I know that is where they "Should" be now. But what about in 4 or 5 years, when I really want to build a new car? They damn sure won't have a prayer there by then, and that is making the HUGE assumption that they would now.
Not that I HAVE to build a Miata, or that I HAVE to stay in A, just a cool, cheap, rear drive car, in a fantastic class.
No way in hell.
ITS.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I know that is where they "Should" be now. But what about in 4 or 5 years, when I really want to build a new car? They damn sure won't have a prayer there by then, and that is making the HUGE assumption that they would now.
Not that I HAVE to build a Miata, or that I HAVE to stay in A, just a cool, cheap, rear drive car, in a fantastic class.
Trending Topics
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,200
Likes: 0
From: One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (RacerBowie)
Eh, I have no real feelings on adding the 99+ to Spec Miata. It does take the "Spec" out of it - having 2 body styles, 2 rear ends, 2+ transmissions, 3+ engines, and all.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerBowie »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wonder if I can ever get the '99+ Miatas classed as ITA cars? Might be time to write my first letter to the CRB or ITAC or CIA or XYZ or whatever.</TD></TR></TABLE>
99 might just be able to slip into ITA.
01+ (when they are eligible) would surely be ITS given the "VTEC" and bigger brakes.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerBowie »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wonder if I can ever get the '99+ Miatas classed as ITA cars? Might be time to write my first letter to the CRB or ITAC or CIA or XYZ or whatever.</TD></TR></TABLE>
99 might just be able to slip into ITA.
01+ (when they are eligible) would surely be ITS given the "VTEC" and bigger brakes.
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
From: Tire Wall Turn 6, NHIS, USA
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (Maxx44)
what kind of weight penalty did they give them?
the 1.6 guys must be pissed!!!!!!
GTF is a 1.6 guy but doesn't SM so doesn't care!
the 1.6 guys must be pissed!!!!!!
GTF is a 1.6 guy but doesn't SM so doesn't care!
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,144
Likes: 3
From: Union, KY, USA
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (Maxx44)
I was at Mid-Ohio and breifly spoke to Dave Roush who was asked by Mazda to run a newer car in SM as a trial to see how it was. He knows M-O about as well as anyone and was running toward the back of the pack but I think it was more in an effort to get clean running room than to knock fenders up front. I seem to recall it was simply a trial but the general idea would be that it could be made competitive with development with the older cars but would likely need to have a lower level of prep to not make it faster.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 604
Likes: 0
From: Cuyahoga Falls, OH, USA
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (Crack Monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Eh, I have no real feelings on adding the 99+ to Spec Miata. It does take the "Spec" out of it - having 2 body styles, 2 rear ends, 2+ transmissions, 3+ engines, and all.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I guess that's just the point to me - you already have two different generations of Miatas in SM (90-93 and 94-97). They look the same but the engines and rear ends are different. Yet both models have been made competitive through weight/power rulings.
So what is the big deal about adding another variant? It's not like the 99+ is totally different in terms of layout or it has a rotary or anything like that. As long as it is kept competitive in terms of the other generations things should be fine.
- Markus
I guess that's just the point to me - you already have two different generations of Miatas in SM (90-93 and 94-97). They look the same but the engines and rear ends are different. Yet both models have been made competitive through weight/power rulings.
So what is the big deal about adding another variant? It's not like the 99+ is totally different in terms of layout or it has a rotary or anything like that. As long as it is kept competitive in terms of the other generations things should be fine.
- Markus
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,200
Likes: 0
From: One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (RacerBowie)
Have the specs for the 99+ SM been released? I see there is a part number for the kit from MazdaSpeed, but didn't see spring rates, swaybar, or shock listed?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 1
From: I started it
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (RacerBowie)
Boy those folks sure are upset. I suppose I would be too, lots of valid concerns over on specmiata.com. I'd be unhappy too if what I'm reading is true...they can use the 6 speed trans and whatnot. Of course the flipside is that people are upset about the addition of a car that hasn't even raced yet and hasn't been built yet.
Still another example of how the notion of Spec Miata racing being "cheap" is necessarily a truism. And the value of that old Grand Am Miata in the back of Sportscar (the green and yellow one) just went up a few thousand dollars methinks.
--Karl, who agrees with Scott...SM looks like "Spec RX-7 v2.0" from where I'm sitting...
Still another example of how the notion of Spec Miata racing being "cheap" is necessarily a truism. And the value of that old Grand Am Miata in the back of Sportscar (the green and yellow one) just went up a few thousand dollars methinks.
--Karl, who agrees with Scott...SM looks like "Spec RX-7 v2.0" from where I'm sitting...
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,200
Likes: 0
From: One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (Markus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Markus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So what is the big deal about adding another variant? It's not like the 99+ is totally different in terms of layout or it has a rotary or anything like that. As long as it is kept competitive in terms of the other generations things should be fine.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's a lot easier to balance two slightly different chassis than 3+.
The 90-93 were all very similar and the 94-97 were all very similar. So, it was fairly straight forward to get a formula to make them even.
The 99+ has a ton of changes. 6-speed, better aero, variable valve timing.
They could just as easily have added the Z3 to the mix. Hey, it's a 4-cyl, two seater, RWD ragtop too.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's a lot easier to balance two slightly different chassis than 3+.
The 90-93 were all very similar and the 94-97 were all very similar. So, it was fairly straight forward to get a formula to make them even.
The 99+ has a ton of changes. 6-speed, better aero, variable valve timing.
They could just as easily have added the Z3 to the mix. Hey, it's a 4-cyl, two seater, RWD ragtop too.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 604
Likes: 0
From: Cuyahoga Falls, OH, USA
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (Crack Monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They could just as easily have added the Z3 to the mix. Hey, it's a 4-cyl, two seater, RWD ragtop too. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Honestly, I'm not ALL that much into spec series so that's fine with me. As someone else touched on, spec series sound like they will be less expensive since the rules are limited...but then everyone just spends more reaching those rules or something like that...and you end up with a proliferation of single marque spec series (Spec Miata, Neon, VW GTI, etc etc etc). I'd rather see some of them combined but then you'd end up with...Improved Touring.
Sorry for the thread hijack, rant off!
</TD></TR></TABLE>Honestly, I'm not ALL that much into spec series so that's fine with me. As someone else touched on, spec series sound like they will be less expensive since the rules are limited...but then everyone just spends more reaching those rules or something like that...and you end up with a proliferation of single marque spec series (Spec Miata, Neon, VW GTI, etc etc etc). I'd rather see some of them combined but then you'd end up with...Improved Touring.
Sorry for the thread hijack, rant off!
Trial User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,722
Likes: 0
From: Plotting My Revenge
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (Markus)
I hate SM. Obviously its hugely popular, but I hate it.
Here's why I hate it...
1. "Its a budget class." - Bullshit. A competitive SM in the SEDIV will cost you more than $20K, and there's a whole bunch of OPM and BSI cars that have sold for more than $25K.
2. "Miatas aren't competitive in ITA." - Bullshit. Our own Bowie Gray has been proving that isn't true for years, and he's on a limited budget. If some of these guys threw that $25K they are using on SMs into an ITA Miata it would just plain kick ***.
3. Its TOO popular. Everybody with a novice permit wants one, and after about P10 at most races the talent level drops off big time. Its a friggin crash fest back there because the cars are equal and they can't get away from each other and they don't have the talent to handle this without hitting things. It really is a mess.
Finally
4. "Its a spec class" - Bullshit. Now you have 2 different body styles. 3 different motors, 3 different transmissions...
Whats "spec" about that?
As mentioned above, might as well change it to "Spec Roadster" and let the Z3 and Z4 in.
I truly, honestly thinks that SM has done not much more than pilfer drivers from other classes and run other drivers from classes that have to run with SM off because they are tired of getting hit.
From a distance it looks like SM has been a huge gain for club racing, but it really hasn't been. Its been a huge gain for places like OPM, BSI, Bilstein, Toyo, and various body shops around the country.
Scott, who has still never had any M2M contact with another car in his class but has had issues with at least one SM in pretty much every single one of his races.
Here's why I hate it...
1. "Its a budget class." - Bullshit. A competitive SM in the SEDIV will cost you more than $20K, and there's a whole bunch of OPM and BSI cars that have sold for more than $25K.
2. "Miatas aren't competitive in ITA." - Bullshit. Our own Bowie Gray has been proving that isn't true for years, and he's on a limited budget. If some of these guys threw that $25K they are using on SMs into an ITA Miata it would just plain kick ***.
3. Its TOO popular. Everybody with a novice permit wants one, and after about P10 at most races the talent level drops off big time. Its a friggin crash fest back there because the cars are equal and they can't get away from each other and they don't have the talent to handle this without hitting things. It really is a mess.
Finally
4. "Its a spec class" - Bullshit. Now you have 2 different body styles. 3 different motors, 3 different transmissions...
Whats "spec" about that?
As mentioned above, might as well change it to "Spec Roadster" and let the Z3 and Z4 in.
I truly, honestly thinks that SM has done not much more than pilfer drivers from other classes and run other drivers from classes that have to run with SM off because they are tired of getting hit.
From a distance it looks like SM has been a huge gain for club racing, but it really hasn't been. Its been a huge gain for places like OPM, BSI, Bilstein, Toyo, and various body shops around the country.
Scott, who has still never had any M2M contact with another car in his class but has had issues with at least one SM in pretty much every single one of his races.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 0
From: Middleburg Heights, OH
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (CRX Lee)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was at Mid-Ohio and breifly spoke to Dave Roush who was asked by Mazda to run a newer car in SM as a trial to see how it was. He knows M-O about as well as anyone and was running toward the back of the pack but I think it was more in an effort to get clean running room than to knock fenders up front. I seem to recall it was simply a trial but the general idea would be that it could be made competitive with development with the older cars but would likely need to have a lower level of prep to not make it faster. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Guess that explains why I saw that SSB car out on track with the rest of the SMs last summer.
So theoretically speaking, someone could now buy a $20,000 Miata, build it up to SM specs, and then destroy it on the first race weekend?
Guess that explains why I saw that SSB car out on track with the rest of the SMs last summer.
So theoretically speaking, someone could now buy a $20,000 Miata, build it up to SM specs, and then destroy it on the first race weekend?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,049
Likes: 2
From: Snowwhitepillowformybigfathead
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (Catch 22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hate SM. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Hate?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's why I hate it...
1. "Its a budget class." - Bullshit. A competitive SM in the SEDIV will cost you more than $20K, and there's a whole bunch of OPM and BSI cars that have sold for more than $25K.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
There's no such thing as a budget class. Name a class and I can find you someone who can't afford it. It's certainly a budget class compared to GT3.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3. Its TOO popular. Everybody with a novice permit wants one, and after about P10 at most races the talent level drops off big time. Its a friggin crash fest back there because the cars are equal and they can't get away from each other and they don't have the talent to handle this without hitting things. It really is a mess.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Uhm, wouldn't that be true of any class as big as SM?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4. "Its a spec class" - Bullshit. Now you have 2 different body styles. 3 different motors, 3 different transmissions...
Whats "spec" about that?
As mentioned above, might as well change it to "Spec Roadster" and let the Z3 and Z4 in.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Spec...Managed Competition...What's the difference. It's single marque, and single model...more or less. This is nitpicking.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I truly, honestly thinks that SM has done not much more than pilfer drivers from other classes and run other drivers from classes that have to run with SM off because they are tired of getting hit.
From a distance it looks like SM has been a huge gain for club racing, but it really hasn't been. Its been a huge gain for places like OPM, BSI, Bilstein, Toyo, and various body shops around the country.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Here I find more agreement with you. But I'll go further. There are too many other classes too. Let's get rid of half of the existing classes and people will just build inexpensive competitive cars for the new slate and everything will be better than it ever was.
Scott, who has seen the light...the answer is simple and easy...I knew my life would turn around one day!
Hate?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's why I hate it...
1. "Its a budget class." - Bullshit. A competitive SM in the SEDIV will cost you more than $20K, and there's a whole bunch of OPM and BSI cars that have sold for more than $25K.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
There's no such thing as a budget class. Name a class and I can find you someone who can't afford it. It's certainly a budget class compared to GT3.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3. Its TOO popular. Everybody with a novice permit wants one, and after about P10 at most races the talent level drops off big time. Its a friggin crash fest back there because the cars are equal and they can't get away from each other and they don't have the talent to handle this without hitting things. It really is a mess.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Uhm, wouldn't that be true of any class as big as SM?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4. "Its a spec class" - Bullshit. Now you have 2 different body styles. 3 different motors, 3 different transmissions...
Whats "spec" about that?
As mentioned above, might as well change it to "Spec Roadster" and let the Z3 and Z4 in.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Spec...Managed Competition...What's the difference. It's single marque, and single model...more or less. This is nitpicking.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I truly, honestly thinks that SM has done not much more than pilfer drivers from other classes and run other drivers from classes that have to run with SM off because they are tired of getting hit.
From a distance it looks like SM has been a huge gain for club racing, but it really hasn't been. Its been a huge gain for places like OPM, BSI, Bilstein, Toyo, and various body shops around the country.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Here I find more agreement with you. But I'll go further. There are too many other classes too. Let's get rid of half of the existing classes and people will just build inexpensive competitive cars for the new slate and everything will be better than it ever was.
Scott, who has seen the light...the answer is simple and easy...I knew my life would turn around one day!
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,156
Likes: 0
From: Snellville, Ga, USA
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (Crack Monkey)
I really am hoping a lot of the 1.6 guys get mad and leave for ITA. The more cars to play with, the merrier!
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,200
Likes: 0
From: One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (RacerBowie)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerBowie »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I really am hoping a lot of the 1.6 guys get mad and leave for ITA. The more cars to play with, the merrier!</TD></TR></TABLE>
What is the performance difference between you're ITA car and a top SM?
What is the performance difference between you're ITA car and a top SM?
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,156
Likes: 0
From: Snellville, Ga, USA
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (Crack Monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What is the performance difference between you're ITA car and a top SM?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am currently about 1.5 seconds faster at Road Atlanta than the SM lap record. Hope to gain a bit more this year...
What is the performance difference between you're ITA car and a top SM?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am currently about 1.5 seconds faster at Road Atlanta than the SM lap record. Hope to gain a bit more this year...
Trial User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,722
Likes: 0
From: Plotting My Revenge
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (Crack Monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What is the performance difference between you're ITA car and a top SM?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Depends upon the track, but its typically only a couple of seconds.
Sounds like alot, but there's 10 more whp in IT trim (that doesn't cost any extra btw) and you can run 225 Hoosiers.
That should be good for about... 2 seconds.
I'm ignoring Rinde. He's just a babbling madman over in the corner.
Basically, SM was a GREAT idea. The only thing wrong with it is that we didn't need it. Everything about it is a farce (a popular farce, but a farce nevertheless). It IS a competitive ITA car. It is no less expensive to build than said ITA car. And it really isn't growing the club (overall entries are still pretty much the same as they were 5 years ago, the mix is just different).
I figure I should try to start "Spec CRX" for all those poor ITA CRXs that will soon be obsoleted by the new ITA cars [my tongue is bruising the inside of my cheek right now].
Scott, who says "May the Farce be with you."
What is the performance difference between you're ITA car and a top SM?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Depends upon the track, but its typically only a couple of seconds.
Sounds like alot, but there's 10 more whp in IT trim (that doesn't cost any extra btw) and you can run 225 Hoosiers.
That should be good for about... 2 seconds.
I'm ignoring Rinde. He's just a babbling madman over in the corner.
Basically, SM was a GREAT idea. The only thing wrong with it is that we didn't need it. Everything about it is a farce (a popular farce, but a farce nevertheless). It IS a competitive ITA car. It is no less expensive to build than said ITA car. And it really isn't growing the club (overall entries are still pretty much the same as they were 5 years ago, the mix is just different).
I figure I should try to start "Spec CRX" for all those poor ITA CRXs that will soon be obsoleted by the new ITA cars [my tongue is bruising the inside of my cheek right now].
Scott, who says "May the Farce be with you."
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,156
Likes: 0
From: Snellville, Ga, USA
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (Catch 22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
there's 10 more whp in IT trim (that doesn't cost any extra btw)</TD></TR></TABLE>
I hope so. Right now I think I have about 10 more than the decent miatas. It sounds like the top 1.6s are about where I am. I guess I need to get Blake to hook me up (again) and get back on the dyno, but I would rather spend that money on making me suck less.
there's 10 more whp in IT trim (that doesn't cost any extra btw)</TD></TR></TABLE>
I hope so. Right now I think I have about 10 more than the decent miatas. It sounds like the top 1.6s are about where I am. I guess I need to get Blake to hook me up (again) and get back on the dyno, but I would rather spend that money on making me suck less.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 512
Likes: 0
From: richmond, va, 23233
Re: '99+ Miatas added to SpecMiata... End of world, or about time? (Catch 22)
shocked that i am saying this ;-), but i think i agree w/ everything Catch said here 
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hate SM. Obviously its hugely popular, but I hate it.
Here's why I hate it...
1. "Its a budget class." - Bullshit. A competitive SM in the SEDIV will cost you more than $20K, and there's a whole bunch of OPM and BSI cars that have sold for more than $25K.
2. "Miatas aren't competitive in ITA." - Bullshit. Our own Bowie Gray has been proving that isn't true for years, and he's on a limited budget. If some of these guys threw that $25K they are using on SMs into an ITA Miata it would just plain kick ***.
3. Its TOO popular. Everybody with a novice permit wants one, and after about P10 at most races the talent level drops off big time. Its a friggin crash fest back there because the cars are equal and they can't get away from each other and they don't have the talent to handle this without hitting things. It really is a mess.
Finally
4. "Its a spec class" - Bullshit. Now you have 2 different body styles. 3 different motors, 3 different transmissions...
Whats "spec" about that?
As mentioned above, might as well change it to "Spec Roadster" and let the Z3 and Z4 in.
I truly, honestly thinks that SM has done not much more than pilfer drivers from other classes and run other drivers from classes that have to run with SM off because they are tired of getting hit.
From a distance it looks like SM has been a huge gain for club racing, but it really hasn't been. Its been a huge gain for places like OPM, BSI, Bilstein, Toyo, and various body shops around the country.
Scott, who has still never had any M2M contact with another car in his class but has had issues with at least one SM in pretty much every single one of his races.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hate SM. Obviously its hugely popular, but I hate it.
Here's why I hate it...
1. "Its a budget class." - Bullshit. A competitive SM in the SEDIV will cost you more than $20K, and there's a whole bunch of OPM and BSI cars that have sold for more than $25K.
2. "Miatas aren't competitive in ITA." - Bullshit. Our own Bowie Gray has been proving that isn't true for years, and he's on a limited budget. If some of these guys threw that $25K they are using on SMs into an ITA Miata it would just plain kick ***.
3. Its TOO popular. Everybody with a novice permit wants one, and after about P10 at most races the talent level drops off big time. Its a friggin crash fest back there because the cars are equal and they can't get away from each other and they don't have the talent to handle this without hitting things. It really is a mess.
Finally
4. "Its a spec class" - Bullshit. Now you have 2 different body styles. 3 different motors, 3 different transmissions...
Whats "spec" about that?
As mentioned above, might as well change it to "Spec Roadster" and let the Z3 and Z4 in.
I truly, honestly thinks that SM has done not much more than pilfer drivers from other classes and run other drivers from classes that have to run with SM off because they are tired of getting hit.
From a distance it looks like SM has been a huge gain for club racing, but it really hasn't been. Its been a huge gain for places like OPM, BSI, Bilstein, Toyo, and various body shops around the country.
Scott, who has still never had any M2M contact with another car in his class but has had issues with at least one SM in pretty much every single one of his races.</TD></TR></TABLE>