chamber kit = less handling?
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2004
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From: Bellevue, WA
chamber kit = less handling?
i did and search and was reading some threads from a while ago about camber kits. i read one where someoen said that by putting a camber kit in, you'll loose about 75% of handling you gained from your suspension. hope that made sense, but can anyone tell me if thats legit or just talk? he said that the neg camber helps around corners, so when u fix it, handling around corners will be sacrificed. it made sense i guess, but 75%??...reason im asking is i just ordered a kit.
Master H Technician
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Re: chamber kit = less handling? (napalm_srv)
ignorance... to much negative camber is actually bad... Such things as less tire patch on the ground and added strain in the tire from even contact patch pressure really dont help you at all... Typically there is a limit to beneficial camber... Its different for all vehicles due to weight, weight distribution, wheel base, and about 100 other factors...
Generally, I feel most comfortable around -.5 degrees because its negative camber that is beneficial and added tire wear isnt bad.. I would stay within factory specs unless its purely an autocross car or drag car and then thats where R&D come in... Theres alot more too it... But to answer your question. Keep the camber kit.. But have it aligned after!
Generally, I feel most comfortable around -.5 degrees because its negative camber that is beneficial and added tire wear isnt bad.. I would stay within factory specs unless its purely an autocross car or drag car and then thats where R&D come in... Theres alot more too it... But to answer your question. Keep the camber kit.. But have it aligned after!
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Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
Re: chamber kit = less handling? (napalm_srv)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by napalm_srv »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i did and search and was reading some threads from a while ago about camber kits. i read one where someoen said that by putting a camber kit in, you'll loose about 75% of handling you gained from your suspension. hope that made sense, but can anyone tell me if thats legit or just talk? he said that the neg camber helps around corners, so when u fix it, handling around corners will be sacrificed. it made sense i guess, but 75%??...reason im asking is i just ordered a kit.</TD></TR></TABLE>
it's not the camber kit that lessens handling, it's the camber setting that will negate "good handling." the general rule is that negative camber = better handling. For our cars, something around -2.5 degrees of camber is ideal for competitive driving (road racing, a/x, hill climbs, etc). At this setting, you do sacrifice some straight line grip, as well as straight line braking performance--but if you've got -2.5 degrees of camber and you know what you're doing, the grip generated in corners more than outweighs those downsides.
the gripe that negative camber kills tires is contentious. some people think that camber kills tires, but i'm of the mind that even -2.5 degrees of camber doesn't have a major effect on tire life. I've had 2 sets of summer tires last ~20,000-25,000 miles running -1.5 to -2.0 degrees of camber--the key is that i made sure the car was aligned to have ZERO toe at all four corners.
also, camber kits were not made to set cars to 0 degrees camber, they were made to allow tuners to adjust camber settings, front to back and left to right. i.e. my car is dropped fairly evenly but the camber numbers are off by a couple tenths of a degree left to right, a camber kit allows me to set the front camber to -2.0 on both sides, and -1.0 in the rear.
the proper way to methodically set your camber is to test and tune using a pyrometer and take tire temps after a run. using trial and error you come to a point where the camber and total overall alignment yield the best results for what you want to do.
it's not the camber kit that lessens handling, it's the camber setting that will negate "good handling." the general rule is that negative camber = better handling. For our cars, something around -2.5 degrees of camber is ideal for competitive driving (road racing, a/x, hill climbs, etc). At this setting, you do sacrifice some straight line grip, as well as straight line braking performance--but if you've got -2.5 degrees of camber and you know what you're doing, the grip generated in corners more than outweighs those downsides.
the gripe that negative camber kills tires is contentious. some people think that camber kills tires, but i'm of the mind that even -2.5 degrees of camber doesn't have a major effect on tire life. I've had 2 sets of summer tires last ~20,000-25,000 miles running -1.5 to -2.0 degrees of camber--the key is that i made sure the car was aligned to have ZERO toe at all four corners.
also, camber kits were not made to set cars to 0 degrees camber, they were made to allow tuners to adjust camber settings, front to back and left to right. i.e. my car is dropped fairly evenly but the camber numbers are off by a couple tenths of a degree left to right, a camber kit allows me to set the front camber to -2.0 on both sides, and -1.0 in the rear.
the proper way to methodically set your camber is to test and tune using a pyrometer and take tire temps after a run. using trial and error you come to a point where the camber and total overall alignment yield the best results for what you want to do.
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Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Jacksonville, Florida, USA
Re: chamber kit = less handling? (bad-monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
it's not the camber kit that lessens handling, it's the camber setting that will negate "good handling." the general rule is that negative camber = better handling. For our cars, something around -2.5 degrees of camber is ideal for competitive driving (road racing, a/x, hill climbs, etc). At this setting, you do sacrifice some straight line grip, as well as straight line braking performance--but if you've got -2.5 degrees of camber and you know what you're doing, the grip generated in corners more than outweighs those downsides.
the gripe that negative camber kills tires is contentious. some people think that camber kills tires, but i'm of the mind that even -2.5 degrees of camber doesn't have a major effect on tire life. I've had 2 sets of summer tires last ~20,000-25,000 miles running -1.5 to -2.0 degrees of camber--the key is that i made sure the car was aligned to have ZERO toe at all four corners.
also, camber kits were not made to set cars to 0 degrees camber, they were made to allow tuners to adjust camber settings, front to back and left to right. i.e. my car is dropped fairly evenly but the camber numbers are off by a couple tenths of a degree left to right, a camber kit allows me to set the front camber to -2.0 on both sides, and -1.0 in the rear.
the proper way to methodically set your camber is to test and tune using a pyrometer and take tire temps after a run. using trial and error you come to a point where the camber and total overall alignment yield the best results for what you want to do.</TD></TR></TABLE>
great info man.
just one thing... i know what camber is but i don't know what caster and toe is. not trying to sound ignorant but what are they?
it's not the camber kit that lessens handling, it's the camber setting that will negate "good handling." the general rule is that negative camber = better handling. For our cars, something around -2.5 degrees of camber is ideal for competitive driving (road racing, a/x, hill climbs, etc). At this setting, you do sacrifice some straight line grip, as well as straight line braking performance--but if you've got -2.5 degrees of camber and you know what you're doing, the grip generated in corners more than outweighs those downsides.
the gripe that negative camber kills tires is contentious. some people think that camber kills tires, but i'm of the mind that even -2.5 degrees of camber doesn't have a major effect on tire life. I've had 2 sets of summer tires last ~20,000-25,000 miles running -1.5 to -2.0 degrees of camber--the key is that i made sure the car was aligned to have ZERO toe at all four corners.
also, camber kits were not made to set cars to 0 degrees camber, they were made to allow tuners to adjust camber settings, front to back and left to right. i.e. my car is dropped fairly evenly but the camber numbers are off by a couple tenths of a degree left to right, a camber kit allows me to set the front camber to -2.0 on both sides, and -1.0 in the rear.
the proper way to methodically set your camber is to test and tune using a pyrometer and take tire temps after a run. using trial and error you come to a point where the camber and total overall alignment yield the best results for what you want to do.</TD></TR></TABLE>
great info man.
just one thing... i know what camber is but i don't know what caster and toe is. not trying to sound ignorant but what are they?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,633
Likes: 1
From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
Re: chamber kit = less handling? (ralpheyizzle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ralpheyizzle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">great info man.
just one thing... i know what camber is but i don't know what caster and toe is. not trying to sound ignorant but what are they?</TD></TR></TABLE>
http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm
the diagrams are pretty clear. don't know if whatever they wrote is right, though.
just one thing... i know what camber is but i don't know what caster and toe is. not trying to sound ignorant but what are they?</TD></TR></TABLE>
http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm
the diagrams are pretty clear. don't know if whatever they wrote is right, though.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
From: Jacksonville, Florida, USA
Re: chamber kit = less handling? (bad-monkey)
thanks man. that's some good info.
toe was what i expected but i didn't expect what caster was. and now i have learned something new.
toe was what i expected but i didn't expect what caster was. and now i have learned something new.
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