does anyone know whats better on the s2k, single or dual??

 

its an inline 4, dual is for show.

 

Single is better for a four cylinder.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Single is better for a four cylinder.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dual is for looks and just adds more weight to the car.

 

don't they come with dual from the factory??? ur talkin about a s2000 right..... then stay with dual . skunk 2 makes a really nice system for them. the car was designed for dual don't try to switch it to a single exhaust, they made it dual for a reason,,,,,, just do some searches in the s2000 forum

 

they come that way from the factory to make it look "sportier". Its a sales factor, not a performance one.

 

so i guess all the dyno test that were done on skunk2 and other exhausts were just done to be sporty and didn't really gain power

 

if you use free flowing mufflers and larger exhaust tubes, of course it will flow better then stock. the point is that it wont flow any better then an aftermarket single exhaust AND it will weigh more. Plus they cost more 99.9% of the time because of the extra material and work. Hell, even shipping cost is affected by the added weight.


Modified by JoeB18R at 12:59 AM 2/22/2005

 

single is better, the dual doesnt add any power its just for look. But the dual does look good.

 

Plus if you look under that S2000 it is one pipe most of that way back and then splits into two before it exits out the mufflers.

 

you can use dual muffler to increase flow without increasing noise level. if you use two restrictive muffler (with baffle) , that would equal to one straight through muffler but it would have a lower noise level.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tw2000si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Plus if you look under that S2000 it is one pipe most of that way back and then splits into two before it exits out the mufflers. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That is exactly the case. And therein lies the problem with such a setup. When it comes to flow through a tube, a straight tube with no transitions or intersections is best. That splitter before the mufflers is actually a restriction. Flow would have been better had it simply proceeded through a straight tube into a single muffler.

 

An exhaust is a system created to transfer the hot gases away from your engine while reducing the noise that your engine creates. Yes exhausts are made to make your car QUIETER. Oh yeah, and reduce dangerous pollutants to the atmosphere and get them out from under your car.

One important thing about exhaust is that they come in pulses. Just like your engine spins in pulses, your engine has valves that open and close thus giving a stop go, stop go pulse to your exhaust system. What we must keep in mind with exhaust is that the gases operate on a pressure system. In order for exhaust gas to move the tip of the pulse must be of a higher pressure than the air surrounding it. The other end of the pulse has a low pressure. Think of the pulse as a snake. The mouth has a high pressure and the tail has a low pressure. Now if the ambient air outside of your tailpipe is low the high end tip of the exhaus pulse is automaticly attracted to the low pressure, BUT the low end tip of that pulse will attract the high end tip of the next pulse. So the pulses suck each other along.

This is how headers are created. The runners in the headers are engineered to make the exhaust pulses of each other meet up so they suck each other down the pipe.

With all of this taken into mind, there is no such thing as a "perfect exhaust". The perfect exhaust would be to run no exhaust.

so bottom line if you want all top end power (which is what the s2000 i smade for), your best bet to go with the dual exhaust. if you want to save what little low end torque that is left in the s2000 for driveability go with a single or keep the stock exhaust.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pontiac power &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so bottom line if you want all top end power (which is what the s2000 i smade for), your best bet to go with the dual exhaust. if you want to save what little low end torque that is left in the s2000 for driveability go with a single or keep the stock exhaust.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The problem here is that a TRUE dual exhaust would have to start right at the engine with different headers (yes, two headers!). ALL current header designs bring all cylinders into one collector. And for a true dual exhaust, you would need to pair cylinders into TWO collectors. You would then need two tubes coming all the way back with two mufflers. And when is all said and done, I am not sure this would be better than a properly sized single exhaust, as it has never been documented.

 

Please try and take what I'm going to say as constructive criticism. It sounds as if you either read something or heard something somewhere about how exhaust systems work and are trying to repeat it here. The reason I say this is because you mention some of the exhaust tuning concepts but you don't seem to have a good grasp on what they're all about. Since you're new here, the best thing to remember when replying to a post is to pay attention to what the original question was and try to answer it simply and clearly. The original question asked:

And your answer to that question went off into exhaust pulse tuning theory....?

This statement couldn't be more inaccurate and actually contradicts everything you tried to discuss above. That's like saying there's no such thing as the perfect camshaft so the best one would be not to run one at all. Everything on a car is a compromise and without a decent exhaust (besides a noise problem) it just wouldn't perform well with daily driveability. The S2000 may make the majority of it's power up high but with a properly designed exhaust system on it, the car will sacrifice a little top end power and give you a more usable, smooth power band for daily driving. That would be considered a more "perfect" exhaust than none at all which would do little for power until high rpm. This is because you would lose any and all exhaust scavenging without an exhaust.

I'm pointing this out to you now so you don't get flamed for it later.

A dual system is only of some benefit on a 6+ cylinder with 2 separate banks of cylinders. On a 4 cylinder car and even on some V6 & V8 cars, as long as the single exhaust system is properly designed, it will make every bit as much power as a dual system would but with less weight. Reducing weight in a car will result in better all round performance than simply increasing power will. Dual exhausts have always been more about looks than function on many street cars and it definitely is on the S2000.

 

what do you think about all the v6 cars that have dual muffler (not dual exhaust). i don't think a 4 door accord v6 have dual muffler just for looks especially when it increase production cost. i still think that dual muffler are design to increase flow without increasing noise level. because in a stock exhaust system, the muffler is usually the bottle neck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rice4life &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what do you think about all the v6 cars that have dual muffler (not dual exhaust). i don't think a 4 door accord v6 have dual muffler just for looks especially when it increase production cost. i still think that dual muffler are design to increase flow without increasing noise level. because in a stock exhaust system, the muffler is usually the bottle neck. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Luxury sport cars like BMW, Lexus and Mercedes for example all use a dual exhaust "look" because it portrays both power and a nice classy finished look to the back end of the car. The Honda Accord V6 (especially the coupe) has been marketed as a luxury sport coupe and the 4 door is marketed as a sports sedan. It's no coincidence that they both run a "dual look" exhaust and if you look back at all the older V6 Accords from 94-95 and up you'll notice that they all ran a single exhaust with dual tips over the typical single exhaust tip because it portrayed a sportier, classier image at that time. A small increase in production cost is acceptable if it gives the vehicle the desired look the manufacturer wants.

While it's true that most OEM mufflers are very restrictive, it's also true as far as exhaust tuning principles go, that the farther away from the exhaust port in the head a restriction is in an exhaust system, the less of an effect it will have on power and performance. So with that being said, using a split style free flowing exhaust to increase performance over a single muffler is less of an issue.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pontiac power &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes it is mostyly for looks, and it helps the sales of the car. as far as the s2000 goes i belive that the dual exhaust and i think it has a fctaory header, was done to help achive the 240hp mark and the hp/l mark that they were advatrising while still meeting all emission requirments.

and in most exhaust systems the exhaust manifold is the bottle neck not the muffler.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with this and I think you'll find with most Hondas at least, that all their exhaust manifolds are pretty much a factory header design and flow pretty well. Unlike most domestic manufacturers which typically used a cast iron log style manifold which flowed poorly and tended to be the main restriction in their exhaust systems, Hondas biggest restriction was their mufflers, tubing size and the manifolds that had the catalytic converters in them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


This statement couldn't be more inaccurate and actually contradicts everything you tried to discuss above. That's like saying there's no such thing as the perfect camshaft so the best one would be not to run one at all. Everything on a car is a compromise and without a decent exhaust (besides a noise problem) it just wouldn't perform well with daily driveability. The S2000 may make the majority of it's power up high but with a properly designed exhaust system on it, the car will sacrifice a little top end power and give you a more usable, smooth power band for daily driving. That would be considered a more "perfect" exhaust than none at all which would do little for power until high rpm. This is because you would lose any and all exhaust scavenging without an exhaust.

I'm pointing this out to you now so you don't get flamed for it later.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

as far as the camshaft is concerned we know, there is no perfect one however we also know that the engine will not run without one (i know you were trying to make a point)

but it seems like you do not know how an exhaust system actually robs power from an engine.

the reason why it robs power is because on the exhaust stroke of the piston the harder it has to work tp get the exhaust out (teh more resistance in the system) the more power you loose. put an engine on a dyno without an exhaust system it will make more top end horsepower then with one plain and simple.

the keyword you said there was, sacrafise. there is no sacrafise i something perfect. what i was trying to say is for maximum power running no would help you gain power. however that does not take into consideration the driveability factors and the noise, thus me saying that there is no perfect exhaust


Modified by pontiac power at 12:26 PM 2/23/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pontiac power &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the keyword you said there was, sacrafise. there is no sacrafise i something perfect. what i was trying to say is for maximum power running no would help you gain power. however that does not take into consideration the driveability factors and the noise, thus me saying that there is no perfect exhaust</TD></TR></TABLE>

The term "perfect" is a very subjective term at times like this and can be used loosely to describe "the best of all worlds". In that sense an exhaust that gives good power throughout it's RPM range would be considered to be a "more perfect" (or perfect when compared to) exhaust than one that only provides power in a narrow RPM range like no exhaust would.

Cars are all about "compromise" for their intended use and driver. It's that compromise that makes it the "perfect" setup for that individual, so to say that there is no 1 single "perfect" setup out there for all cars would be correct. To say that it's impossible to create a "perfect" setup for a specific individual/car through compromise, wouldn't exactly be accurate.

 

i have to keep deleting my other post cause i can only have 5 per ady
and joe the number trial user status is upgraded by a basis of time not bu the number of posts

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Cars are all about "compromise" for their intended use and driver. It's that compromise that makes it the "perfect" setup for that individual, so to say that there is no 1 single "perfect" setup out there for all cars would be correct. To say that it's impossible to create a "perfect" setup for a specific individual/car through compromise, wouldn't exactly be accurate.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that would basically be true if that spefic indivudal car's engine only operated at a certain rpm, no more or no less. we know this is not the case. there for a perfect exhaust can never be achived

can you get an exhaust that is optimal for your application, yes you can. can you get a perfect exhaust. no you can not


Modified by pontiac power at 2:23 PM 2/23/2005

 

skunk2 makes a nice exhaust for the sk2 , i'd recomend that , there system look really good , fit well and sounds really nice, and the one they engineered has dual mufflers

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pontiac power &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have to keep deleting my other post cause i can only have 5 per ady

that would basically be true if that spefic indivudal car's engine only operated at a certain rpm, no more or no less. we know this is not the case. there for a perfect exhaust can never be achived

can you get an exhaust that is optimal for your application, yes you can. can you get a perfect exhaust. no you can not</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you keep deleting your posts you will never gain enough posts to get rid of that trail user status.

 

single is for 4 cylinders

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pontiac power &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
that would basically be true if that spefic indivudal car's engine only operated at a certain rpm, no more or no less. we know this is not the case. there for a perfect exhaust can never be achived

can you get an exhaust that is optimal for your application, yes you can. can you get a perfect exhaust. no you can not</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're using the term "perfect" in that context, then the "perfect" exhaust wouldn't be no exhaust at all like you stated earlier, it would be an exhaust that would make maximum power at every RPM. Since a car with an exhaust system will make more AVERAGE power than one without, I was argueing that it would be considered more of a "perfect" exhaust, than no exhaust at all.

 

nt every car runs well without an exhaust. Say you take a stock civic. remove the exhaust and cat completly and just have it terminate after the exhaust manifold. You will end up losing power, especially low end torque.