i've got a crx that will be moving to sm2 this summer with the addition of its new k20a.

my question is about the wheels that will work best with the setup. i've been running 13x8's w/225/45 hoosiers in csp. is this still going to be the hot setup, or would a larger wheel/tire and the difference in gearing work better with the new motor? i'm basically looking for some thoughts from people with experience with b/k swaps already running in the class.

the easy answer is to try both and see what happens, but i'm working on getting the brakes sorted now, and the decision requires me to know if i need something that can squeeze under a 13in wheel. the oe calipers are toast, and it doesn't have rotors, so i've been looking at the lighter wilwood kits from brian @ fastbrakes. the 2piston caliper will fit the 13's, the 4 won't.

tia-
greg

 

with ~200 wheel of the K-power, 15 will work better because of its larger longitudenal contact patch. this will give you better acceleration grip vs the 13" set-up. i would also run stock brakes. less weight, rotational mass and they will work just fine at autocross speeds.

now, is the k a legal swap in sm/sm2? is the k-mount kit direct bold on? no welding/cutting off of mounts?


-spenc

 

what about the gearing differences- that is what i'm getting at. i understand the longitudinal grip argument, but i can fit a much wider tire in the 13, which would cancel that. it's more a question of where the 13's are going to place me in the powerband of the new motor at autox speeds. i don't want to be between 1st and 2nd, or 2nd and 3rd all the time.

brakes won't be bigger. only looking to lighten them up.

i've read the rules a few times- where is the problem? i've also been in contact with our tech inspector, who saw no problems when we talked, saying everything was within the intent of the rules.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1. Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and
badged the same as the original standard or optional engine
for that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the
manufacturer will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps
involving makes related only at a corporate level are not
recognized as equivalents. Models produced as a joint venture
between manufacturers may utilize any engine from any
partner in the joint venture, provided that an engine from the
desired manufacturer was a factory option in that particular
model (e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from
Chrysler or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks
manufactured as production units for sale in other countries
such as Japan or Germany.</TD></TR></TABLE>
check-

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Any minor modification, intended to allow or facilitate any allowed
modification, is permitted as long as it does not provide any intrinsic
performance benefit in and of itself, does not provide a weight
reduction of more than 1 lb, and is not explicitly prohibited elsewhere
within these rules. This rule is intended to allow minor
notching, bending, clearancing, grinding; the drilling of holes;
affixing, relocating, or strengthening of brackets; removal of small
parts, and similar operations performed in order to facilitate the
installation of allowed parts or modifications. This does not permit
extensive modifications to a subframe or cross-member to lower
an engine which would otherwise not fit in the engine compartment.
Competitors are strongly cautioned to make the minimum
amount of modification required to affix a given part, and to not
make unduly tortured interpretations of this rule. Modifications to
the firewall in order to allow for increased engine setback, and any
modification that changes the location of a suspension pickup
point, are explicitly forbidden.</TD></TR></TABLE>
check-

did i miss a fastrack or something?

 

i guess you've got the k-swap legality all squared away then. rodney and i were talking about it and we werent sure if it was actually legal due to the mounts.
as for the 13 vs 15 gearing, i realy cant say. i know stock dc5s 6 speed trans and 16's puts the car decently in its power band. that was with 215 azenis. i would think the 13 would be way too short and would put you in 3rd and the 15 would be dam good.

are you using stock final drive?
stock rev limit?

btw-what reigon do you run with?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rsca_crx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but i can fit a much wider tire in the 13, which would cancel that. it's more a question of where the 13's are going to place me in the powerband of the new motor at autox speeds.</TD></TR></TABLE>

A 225/45/15 would be fantastical, and you shouldn't have a gearing problem wiht the K- tranny. Shoot, if it were my car I'd be seeing if I could shoe-horn 16's or 17's up front with 245s.

What 13" tires are available wider than 225?

 

the 13's are 225s, and stick out about an inch on the 13x8's- lowered to where they :just: don't rub in corners. i'm still not convinced that you'd get the 225/45/15s on there w/ the fender rules and still be able to lower the car much at all- though i'd love to be wrong.

i run w/mohud, and nyc area scca, rpi rsca and whatever events the porsche club invites them to, and will also be running w/ n.philly area scca this year. i live in nyc, and go to school here and in upstate ny, while working a little in philly. i try to get runs in whereever i am.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rsca_crx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the 13's are 225s, and stick out about an inch on the 13x8's- lowered to where they :just: don't rub in corners. i'm still not convinced that you'd get the 225/45/15s on there w/ the fender rules and still be able to lower the car much at all- though i'd love to be wrong.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The SM/SM2 rules are rather liberal when it comes to flaring fenders for tire clearance. Front fenders may be modified or substituted for clearance, and the rear fenders may be flared as required for clearance.

I run 225/45-15s on 15x8.5 rims on my EF, which is lowered within an inch of its life. I'm running stiff enough springs that I don't have any bottoming trouble (rubbing speedbumps is an entirely different story). The tires only rub the right rear when I carry a passenger, and then its only a minor rub.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rsca_crx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i run w/mohud, and nyc area scca, rpi rsca and whatever events the porsche club invites them to, and will also be running w/ n.philly area scca this year. i live in nyc, and go to school here and in upstate ny, while working a little in philly. i try to get runs in whereever i am.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

aah. havent seen you at any nyrscca events out on the island. you should check them out if you can. we have some pritty good SM and SM2 competittion.

jaker-

 

ok, now to let you make all of my decisions for me, since reading other people's impressions of either setup isn't helping much. hopefully noone minds since it is silly season and there isn't anything else to do.

right now, i have the 13x8's, my current street wheels at 15x6.5 +45offset, snd the stocks which could be reinstated as the "get to the parking lot" wheel. i 'm either going to:

run the 13's- 225's, better turn in,

15s w/ 205's they fit w/ the +45, decent response on the 6.5 (i run these for de's too)

figure out spacers and fender work to run a 225 on the 6.5 w/ +45, and screw the response in favor of the grip.

i know there is the quit being a *****, eat more ramen, and toast the visa for some wider 15's, but after the swap i'm not really ready for that, and i'm even out of ramen.

thoughts?

and to hijack my own thread a bit, even if it is all related in the decision.
if i go w/ the 13's, i'm going to go w/ brian's new brake kit using wilwood 2piston calipers and 2piece rotors to save weight and fit under the rim. any thoughts on the smaller caliper? even for de work...?(i dont have stock calipers, so i figured if i was going to buy something, i might as well save some weight)


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lo-Buck EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

aah. havent seen you at any nyrscca events out on the island. you should check them out if you can. we have some pritty good SM and SM2 competittion.

jaker- </TD></TR></TABLE>

the car stays up north most of the year lately (sphericals in nyc ), but i'd like to get out and see how things are run over there. i'll be sure to say hi if i see you.

 

I'd say get 2 15x8s for 225/45/15 h00siers. You don't need to figure out if they fit because they fit:


You can use the 15x6.5 for the rear and run 205 h00siers or 225 h00siers. That will be fast.

IMHO it would be silly to run 13s with a K-series, you'll have enough torque to turn 15s.........

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carl_aka_carlos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IMHO it would be silly to run 13s with a K-series, you'll have enough torque to turn 15s.........</TD></TR></TABLE>


And I say you'll have TOO much torque for the 13s.

As an aside, I ran a slush series event a couple weekends ago in Seattle, and my buddy with his Talon was parked next to me, changing his tires at the same time as I was changing mine. He has 17x9 wheels with 255/40-17 Victoracers. I looked at one of them sitting on its side on the ground and thought "I think my tires are just as wide as those". Well I picked one of mine up and walked over and layed it on the ground beside his. It was maybe 1/4" narrower.

 

Jaker-

what is the offset (or backspacing) on the wheels you're running? they are kodiaks, right? any spacers front/rear? issues w/ the rear t.a. or strut housing?

edit: nevermind- i found an old reply of yours.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">15x8.5 Kodiaks with 225/45-15 Hoosiers on my 89 STD Hatch lowered about 2" all around. Tires tuck ever so slightly front and rear. The fenders are heavily massaged to clear. Though it looks like they'd rub quite severely, they don't. There's enough camber gain designed into the suspension, that as the wheel compresses, the top tips in. The wheels are 5.75" backspace, and I tune the fit with spacers front and rear. 1/8" in front to clear the brake calipers, and 1/4" in the rear to clear the trailing arm and the heavily clearance upper control arm/top of the trailing arm. I wish my damned photo server was up so I could show you the pictures. Ask Rodney, he's seen them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

if anything is misquoted, lemmeno. after getting everything on and fitted, do you feel 5.75in is the optimal backspacing?

i think the staggered solution fits everything the best for me- the car and my budget.
thanks

Modified by rsca_crx at 11:34 PM 2/10/2005


Modified by rsca_crx at 12:03 AM 2/11/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rsca_crx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
if anything is misquoted, lemmeno. after getting everything on and fitted, do you feel 5.75in is the optimal backspacing?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, what it says is pretty much the way it is. The rear will occasionally rub the trailing arm, but its not noticeable other than the slight polish on the arm. If I had to do it again, I'd probably buy the exact same back space. I'm quite happy with tuning the fit with spacers, and that's the whole reason I bought them that way to begin with. I took as many measurements as I could, but wasn't 100% certain that I got them all right. I figured it was a safer bet to have too much backspace, and push it out with spacers than to have not enough backspace.