I need some info from people who have these cams in there car. 403's i know would b ok, but i would like 2 do 404's but i've heard othing but bad things. Its a stock bottom end and im buying the valve springs when i get the cams. I've heard people say 404's are no good because the powerband kicks in 2 late with a stock ecu. HELP ME PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

if ur puttin cams in its best to got an ems such as hondata. the only thing about 404's are the idle is sometimes pretty rough and they arent to terrific for daily driving. get the 403's if its a daily driver.

 

thats what most people told me thanks

 

NO! don't go with the ***** cams!
404's ROCK HARD BABY! torque doesn't peak 'til like 6000rpm, so yes, higher fuel cut would be very useful, but you don't need it. the butt-dyno well tell you that a car is fast right as the torque starts falling, so it will lie about these cams like a mother! just watch your speedo or tach and you'll know the butt-dyno is full of crap! check out power comparo on bolt-ons cars with only fuel pressure tuning. i found these dynos; actually, the 403-equipped car has a couple more mods than the 404 car:
RPM-----HP-403----HP-404
2.5k-------48---------50
3k---------60---------62
3.5k-------69---------73
4k---------84---------87
4.5k-------99--------100
5k--------115--------120
5.5k------125--------130
6k--------132--------146
6.5k------142--------148
7k--------137--------147

the 404 is GREAT in our engines, even with stock head and redline! can't argue with power, baby! they pull hella hardcore! and yeah, the idle is crappy at 700rpm. put it up to 900 and it'll be fine, don't worry. besides, why wouldn't you want that beautiful idle? it's kinda scary if you ask me, and everybody loves it! don't make this mistake dude, 404's are sweet!

 

i agree with 95lstegman. also you should buy my 404s. 250 shipped to your door.

 

those dynos are bullshit, where'd you get them? crower.com?? exactly.

Your friends are exactly right, if you get the 404's you won't even begin to feel some decent power until 5000rpms, trust me, it sucks *** to pay all that money and get into a car that is NOT faster then it was before.

The 404's need compression, raise the CR and they will come alive for you.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2chron4u &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">those dynos are bullshit, where'd you get them? crower.com?? exactly.

Your friends are exactly right, if you get the 404's you won't even begin to feel some decent power until 5000rpms, trust me, it sucks *** to pay all that money and get into a car that is NOT faster then it was before.

The 404's need compression, raise the CR and they will come alive for you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree....if you're bottom end is going to be stock, then get 403s, if you're upping the compression, get the 404s.

(I've been through both those cams in my all-motor LS)

 

i think you're all full of crap. the reason it doesn't "seem" to be fast until 5000rpm or higher b/c the torque isn't falling off. check out any car. when it seems to "pick up" and start its "power band" is when the torque falls off. the fact that the torque doesn't fall off until 6000rpm w/ 404's means FAST. torque = FAST. HP = function of torque = pointless aka not a measurement. more torque = faster, so get the cam that gets you the most torque. yeah, higher compression = even better, but even w/o it you're still faster.

but whatever, ya'll get the slow **** and let me whoop ya. your loss.

 

I have 404's with my stock bottom end, and I love them! The idle sounds mean as hell, but the power is great. I use my car as a daily driver, but its winter now, so i have a winter beater. Go with the 404's u wont regret it!

 

i was leaning 2 wards the 404's any way but when i told a few people they said dont do it. Im ordering my safc 2 marrow and the cams and retainers next week. So with a stock bottom end i will have no problems, with clearence or anything right? Oh and by the way the idol is the reason i want the cams that **** sounds mean.

 

oh and where did u get those numbers and what mods were on those cars?

 

bump

 

dont buy a SAFC. go standalone EMS like hondat or uberdata!!! u will get more HP outta it

 

i odnt have hondata money and i dont know enough about tuning 2 do it myself. An SAFC would be better than nothing right? and another thing what about cam gears, leave them at zero degrees or what. Any body whit 404 have any suggestions

 

isn't the hondata S200 about the same price as a SAFC? From my quick search online, the SAFC is about $300usd and the S200 is $295 on Hondata's website.

 

i dont have a laptop and then u have 2 buy the datalogger

 

or u could spend about $100 and do UBERDATA urself. anyone that can tune hondata can tune uberdata. u just need to buy parts to make uberdata work

 

bump

 

is this thing all motor or what?? i am looking into these cams for a fully built turbo set up with lower compression will these not be a good idea?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by incredteg3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is this thing all motor or what?? i am looking into these cams for a fully built turbo set up with lower compression will these not be a good idea?</TD></TR></TABLE>
no. 404's will probably suck more than stock on a turbo engine. get their turbo cams.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eclypz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">isn't the hondata S200 about the same price as a SAFC? From my quick search online, the SAFC is about $300usd and the S200 is $295 on Hondata's website.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes. get whatever you want. fuel computer (piggyback like SAFC or my SFC) + FPR is all you really need. standalone is nice, but who cares? for a lot more tuning time (dyno = money) and a higher entry fee, what's the real point? a few HP? ditch power steering. it's quicker and cheaper and doesn't cost so much dyno time. oh yeah, and leave the cam gears a (0,0). it's fine.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GTWITIT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh and where did u get those numbers and what mods were on those cars?</TD></TR></TABLE>
those cars both had i/h/e, and the 403 car had a bigger t/b, if i remember correctly. no major mods, for sure.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GTWITIT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i was leaning 2 wards the 404's any way but when i told a few people they said dont do it. Im ordering my safc 2 marrow and the cams and retainers next week. So with a stock bottom end i will have no problems, with clearence or anything right? Oh and by the way the idol is the reason i want the cams that **** sounds mean.</TD></TR></TABLE>
get them. anybody who tells you not to either has not had some driving time with 404's or is a *****. funny, a lot of people who told me not to do it were VTEC ******. i think they were afraid. why not? they have every reason to be, now. 154hp in a non-VTEC is like considerably more in a VTEC. super-torque is fun. and clearance should be fine. keep in mind, it's always the best idea to clearance it first when in doubt, but stock + these cams is garaunteed. in fact, i've seen people running PCT (Civic Type-R) pistons, which have a huge dome AND a higher compression height, plus a milled head with 404's. it seems there's a lot of clearance on these engines.

 

no....tuning with a SAFC and FPR is not as good as a standalone. There is more to a standalone unit than just bragging rights.

and no...dyno tuning is not a waste of time and it nets more than a couple of HP...I gained 11whp and 20lb-ft of torque after dyno tuning "with power steering". And believe me....I went in with my cam timing at 0,0 and when i left, it's NOT, so 0,0 is not best.


Modified by Eclypz at 3:08 PM 2/10/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95lstegman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think you're all full of crap. the reason it doesn't "seem" to be fast until 5000rpm or higher b/c the torque isn't falling off.
...
but whatever, ya'll get the slow **** and let me whoop ya. your loss.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you're the one who's full of crap bitch. Me and Eclypz BOTH are running 404cams, I had my car dynoed before and after cam install, and the reason it doesn't "seem" to make more power until 5000 rpm is because IT DOESN'T. I lost power below 5000rpms across the board.

I had more torque everywhere below 5000rpms with my stock cams, WAY more torque downlow, how's a drop from 110ft-lbs at 3000rpm, to 85ft-lbs at 3000rpm sound? It sounds like ****, and that's how it drove. Sure maybe it made 150whp but it was slow as ****, because it didn't make any power until the top 15% of it's powerband.

You haven't dynoed ****, you're pulling dyno's off crower.com and pretending they're proof of something. You're using a butt-dyno which we all know means jack ****. Where YOUR dyno's?? I've never seen a real-life dyno on a stock bottom end that looks ANYTHING like the dyno posted on crower...

It's obvious you don't know what the **** you're talking about, "standalone is nice, but who cares?" IDIOT, a few HP? It's called being able to adjust your ignition timing, as well as fine-tune your a/f ratio for both WOT and partial throttle.

A Few HP? How about more power throughout your entire powerband, better throttle response, improved gas mileage? An SAFC and FPR will work, and you can get decent results, but a standalone is superior in every aspect except cost, no doubt about it.

 

i stand by my original post, your friends who said don't get them with a stock ECU and stock CR were right, you WILL NOT be happy.

On the otherhand, if you are willing to bumo up your CR, and chip that ecu, then 404's without a doubt are a good choice.

 

woah. someone just got owned.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eclypz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no....tuning with a SAFC and FPR is not as good as a standalone. There is more to a standalone unit than just bragging rights.

and no...dyno tuning is not a waste of time and it nets more than a couple of HP...I gained 11whp and 20lb-ft of torque after dyno tuning "with power steering". And believe me....I went in with my cam timing at 0,0 and when i left, it's NOT, so 0,0 is not best.


Modified by Eclypz at 3:08 PM 2/10/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

word. thats what im talk n about. it PAYS to get dyno tuned!!!!!!!!!!!!!! point in fact i gained 21whp and 10ft-lbs from dyno tuning with PS as well

yo eclypz, what settings did u turn on the cam gears? negative on the exh on my 403's lost hp. im gonna advance intake and exh cam gears when i dyno tune in 2 months with ma p30's!!!!! ahhhhhhhhhh snap