Hey guys this is going to be kind of a broad question but I am truely new to tuning and know very very little so please dont treat me like a newb . Ok heres my situation, 2000 Integra Type R and recently added an SMSP header and SMSP exhaust to the car. Since then, NO tuning or anything electronic has been done. I am getting the CEL code 45 for running too rich or too lean. And with the SMSP header and exhaust, I know its because of the larger pipe diameters and therefor running too rich. I want to get the car Fuel Tuned soon but here is where I get lost. What are my options to do this?? What will I need (hardware wise) before I go do this. One of the answers I got somewhere else said "to do it right" get a Apexi VAFC and a Hondata s100. This is a lot of money as you know. I only use the car for daily driving so I'm not necessarily going for all out race. Can I just get a VAFC or SAFC to do a fuel tune and go to the shop with just that?? What would you guys recommend for my situation. Any help is SERIOUSLY appreciated as I'm trying to learn without making a foul of myself

 

hey mook, u shouldnt be getting a CEL, never got one when i had my smsp, anyways buy my safc2, and tune it at sfp.

 

I might have to

Have you seen my bumber lately, almost looks as black as yours

 

I have not checked the spark plugs BTW, I should probably go do this tonight to see if I am truely running rich

 

u only need to get a VAFC or HONDATA to tune, not both. my bet would be HONDATA cuz u will get more HP outta the tuning with the HONDATA setup. for a cheaper alternative, go for UBERDATA. it's free, all u need to do is build ur ECU to run it and get a OBD2-OBD1 jumper harness, chip burner, and a few chips.
i can chip u an OBD1 ECU if ya want to let u run uberdata. just gotta supply me with an OBD1 ecu. pm me if ur interested. IMO VAFC is garbage. sure u will gain HP, but with a standalone u will gain even more power

 

Thanks k20, just the answer I've been looking for. I will get back to you about the uber sometime as soon as I figure out what direction i'm going to go.

 

you need to get your car tuned asap.
you are prolly running way to lean right now and it could cook your valves and or pistons.

find a local dyno place, and have them install a tuning system. hondata will give you alot of control and has lots of features. vafc is ok, but its cheap and pretty easy to the tuner to tune. uberdata is good, but you need to find a tuner willing to use it.

 

yea Rob thanks I definitly agree. Do you think it could possibly be the spark plugs?? 55xxx miles and probably never changed the plugs since then. A few of my friends who have ran the same setup never got that CEL code with the same header and exhaust. I'm probably going to do a VAFC because I want to keep my immobilizer and someone said that when u switch to a new ecu and hondata i'll lose that.

i've been running this setup for probably 3-4 months, do you think this has already caused any negative effects on the car?

 

have frank tune it, ill have my car there next week, hopefully.

 

Hey Mark...I'd have to say for the all hard driving you've been doing its pretty bad for your valves and or pistons, as Rob stated above. I would take it to get tuned ASAP. All your v-tec laps isn't helping the problem either. It might help if you post your current fuel setup. Do you have an a/f gauge? And have you've changed out the o2 sensor?

 

SFP should be makin a killin this month. Keiths car is going there, SiQ's Evo, and my Hype R Probably gonna have to get a VAFC. No slammedCL, currently have no electronics since the header exhaust install. BUT i did take out the spark plugs tonight to find this on 1...

 

Looks like some water found its way into there. Have u degreased the motor lately? I ask because when poeple do this, they spray the water over the top of the engine and water fills up the spark plug holes.

 

yeah that looks like water to me too. I don't think that has to do with you running too rich.

 

That header seems to do a fair amount of leaning out.

Use Autotap (or other similar device) to have a look at the long-term fuel trim value. It's probably at the maximum positive correction.

You can use the VAFC (in conjunction with the Autotap) to tune the STFT's back to 0% (+/-5%).

For WOT enrichening, you need to either raise the fuel pressure with an adjustable fuel return regulator and/or with bigger injectors. The AFC itself won't be able to give you enough fuel addition to get the fuel mixture down to where you would like to be.

 

i found that for whatever reason OBD2 motors need their catalytic converters in. did u remove urs with the install. even if u are running a high flow cat i think ur problem comes from the secondary 02 still reading wrong because the high flow cats dont perform as well as a stock cat.
i guess i was the only one that caught the fact that ur bumper is black. this means ur running rich. problem is u need to figure out when ur rich and when ur lean. rich at WOT and lean at cruising RPM for example. stock ECUs run rich from the factory. some ppl say that when u add I/H/E u need to add fuel. i find this to be untrue, if anything adding basic bolt ons only gets u closer to the desired AF ratio.
these are my thoughts, anyone feel free to comment on em.

 

Thanks guys, really do appreciate all the comments. I am not sure how water got in there and not to the others. The other 3 looked fine but I'm going out tomorrow to get some new stock plugs and replace them all. Its probably due time.

IN VTEC, i've never heard of an Autotap, where would I go to use one?? A shop or is this something I have to go out and buy to DIY.

1 2 NV, when I had the new header and exhaust installed, EVRYTHING stock came off. I got a new header, Carsound Cat, 22" resonator, muffler and piping. So everything was off. My first thought actually was that something was wrong with the o2 sensor, either got damaged or what not, and after checking my engine light, got CEL 45.


I plan on getting new spark plugs and see if anything changes, an then looking into a VAFC to do some fuel tuning. Once again thanks guys for all the knowledgeable input

 

http://www.autotap.com

I bought mine used a few months ago and use it occasionally when tuning OBD-2 cars to idle with the proper AFR's and under partial throttle conditions.

 

I used to throw a code 45 like every week or so on a STOCK header with my GS-R and stock ECU. Everyone I've talked to said that its usually a bad primary O2 sensor, which makes sense because from my understanding, the O2 sensor takes A/F readings and adjusts how it sees fit... to an extent. I got a free O2 sensor when I bought a header off a friend and haven't had the problem since.

When you reset your ECU, what happens? Give that a try and see how long it takes before you throw the code again.

You bumper being black should indicate that you're running rich. Like 1 2 NV said, finding out when you're running rich and lean might be a pain. Something you might want to try is doing a couple hard rips, and pulling your spark plugs immediately after and looking at them. Then, let the car idle for a decent amount of time and do the same thing. Then cruise around normally and examine them once more. It might be able to give you an idea of where you're running rich or lean.

As far as tuning goes, if you can get in touch with someone nearby with a wide band, chip burner, and knowledge of Uberdata (which is free BTW), you could get your fuel issues straightened out for a small price. You'd also need an OBDI ECU, a Jumper harness, and a chip socket (for easy chip swapping) to get this all to work though.

 

Running rich during WOT and part throttle/idle conditions are two different things. The closed-loop O2 sensor feedback doesn't take into account WOT situations, so he could be running rich (or lean) at WOT, but still be too lean or too rich for the O2 correction to correct back to the target fuel mixture (which is what the code 45 is indicating).

A dying oxygen sensor sounds like it would be worth look into as well.

 

I did try and reset the ECU and that did eliminate my Check Engine Light for a SHORT time. I did it a couple times, and usually within the same day or the next day it will come back on during normal driving. I do a lot of highway driving so not much hard driving at all.

I am concerned about it possibly being a dying o2 sensor too. When I had the header installed, I had to get the o2 extended so that could have hurt it somehow.

First thing I'm going to do is replace all the spark plugs and either do alfaaay's recommendation before or after I get those. Would it matter??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lifter2012 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I am concerned about it possibly being a dying o2 sensor too. When I had the header installed, I had to get the o2 extended so that could have hurt it somehow.

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AHA!!!!!!! how were the wires extended?????solder or butt connectors??????
splicing in an o2 circuit will change the resistance of the wire and ultimately change how the car runs because the ecu will see different values than it should. get that o2 sensor repaired with one that has longer wires not extending wires in an old one. good luck!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cletus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

AHA!!!!!!! how were the wires extended?????solder or butt connectors??????
splicing in an o2 circuit will change the resistance of the wire and ultimately change how the car runs because the ecu will see different values than it should. get that o2 sensor repaired with one that has longer wires not extending wires in an old one. good luck!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cletus and others, the wire's were just spliced in . The guy just used some leftover wire and spliced it in. As far as I know, no butt connectors or anything. Do they make an o2 sensor for my car that has an already extended wire somehow, I've heard of it but have never seen it on-line. Ultimately, i did have a feeling this was the final problem causeing all this extra nonsence but I ordered new plugs tonight and gonna put them in tonight, i'll update tonight. Wish me luck haha, its been a true headache from the beginning

 

If your o2 sensor is screwed up, it can affect the part throttle A:F ratio. This is prolly why your bumper is black (it shouldnt be)

Also, if the header and exhaust are doing there job, the motor should run leaner not richer.

Simply put, bigger diameter = more airflow+same fuel = leaner conditions. If you want to make power with that setup you will most likely need to add a little fuel to take advantage of the extra flow (besides not burning up valves or pistons)

 

This is what happens when you go to MIDAS... Shoulda went to a tuner shop.

 

Is there any way for me to check the o2 sensors for damage?? If i pull them out what could I look for that would let me know somethings wrong. Maybe I'll take a look at them when i'm putting in the new spark plugs tonight and take some pics