I am sure all of you know that I am the sucker who is building a race car even though the market is absolutely saturated with great cars. (If I knew this when I started building the car two years ago this wouldn't be happening)

Anyways, here is the story....

I have a GSR that happens to be about 85% complete and its getting close to the start of the season. The large items that are left to buy are the 4.9 Final drive, LSD and rear sway bar. This will amount up to about $2000. Here is the delemia!

I have run out of money and I will be buying a home this spring. Is it at all possible to not install a new final drive and LSD and still run the car? I know a LSD is very important, but could it be done?

Option B is to use the money I do not spend on the tranny and go to a couple of races adn keep my license or

Option C is rent a car, throw away the money, but still keep my license.

Any advise? Please try not to say I told you so!

Thanks guys!

 

If the car runs and drives, you don't "need" a FD or LSD.

$.02

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the car runs and drives, you don't "need" a FD or LSD.

$.02</TD></TR></TABLE>Ding!

Go out, drive, stay licensed or whatever. When you have the money, maybe even next season, buy the tranny ****, come back and think you've become a better driver over the winter when your lap times are 2 seconds quicker.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the car runs and drives, you don't "need" a FD or LSD.

$.02
</TD></TR></TABLE>


Exactly! Just drive it the way it is and keep your license!

 

You don't want a final drive in that car anyway.

Keep the 4.4 and run it in 2nd 3rd and 4th instead of 3rd, 4th and 5th.
5th gear sucks in the GSR and is worse in the RS/GS/LS. The more you can stay out of it the better.

When I had the 4.73 and Shultz had the 4.4, he'd pull on me exiting hog pen at VIR because he was in 3rd gear and I was in 4th. When I upshifted to 5th, it just got worse. He could hold 4th almost the whole length of the straight.
Did I mention that I had about 15 more horsepower than him at the time???

LSD is important though. Its a heavy car that needs alot of throttle exiting a corner because the power band comes on so late. No LSD equals alot of wheel spin.
But you don't "need" one to race.

 

Scott - Did you ever try the 4.9? Seck and Ira said it was a must have item...

Again - I have my license (Went to Skippy), but I don't want it to lapse. Unfortunatly, I am also buying a house and houses come first. My thought is to save the money and wait until next winter to rip it out and replace the final drive, LSD and install a new clutch...

I have not had a ton of wheelspin issues yet, but thats only been in HPDE's.

 

4.4 works well at every track with every b-series car we have. Find a nice ITR LSD and be done with it.

 

I would just drive it how it is. Just get out and have fun and when the money permits finish the car.

Just my .02 cents.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECAcuraGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Scott - Did you ever try the 4.9? Seck and Ira said it was a must have item...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, I had a 4.73.
But I still think the 4.4 is just as good as the 4.9 and certainly costs less.
I also know that Seck often runs (ran?) 225/50/15 Toyos and maybe felt the 4.9 was the key with the taller tire (just speculating there).

Look at the gearing and figure out what true advantage you'd get.
And the 4.9 makes 2nd gear useless.

Another example is the North end of CMP. Shultz and Brinson both KILLED me through that whole section (both had the 4.4). They just stayed in 2nd gear, while I could either drop out of the power band in 3rd, or row the shifter back and forth between 2nd and third.

So in the end, I'd say that the 4.7 is to be avoided, and the 4.4 and 4.9 are likely pretty close in performance. In this case, I'd figure the 4.4 would get the nod since you already have one in the car.

 

In the interest of saving money, I'm not adding an LSD or a FD to my CRX. I've only run HPDE's so far, but I think it will be just fine without them in a race. I don't know about you, but this being my first season, I'm not expecting to be a front runner anyway. You might as well save the cash and just focus on improving your driving for this season. That's my plan.

- Scott

 

You can ask your Divisional Licencing person for a waiver of required races. I have done this when family issues took precedent over throwing money away at the track. I just sent a letter explaining my situation and past racing experience and they waived the 4 race requirement for the past season.

If you want an ITR lsd I have one for sale. IM me if you are interested.

Victor Penner

 

if you are worried about wheelspin weld your dif and leave the fd alone

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DMF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would just drive it how it is. Just get out and have fun and when the money permits finish the car.

Just my .02 cents.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

IMO the 4.7 is no good, and the 4.4 is just as good as the 4.9, at least at the tracks I drive at. The difference is driving the car in 2nd, 3rd and 4th rather than 3rd, 4th and 5th. Scott's right.

Even if you bought a new OPM diff and a rear bar you're out $1000 probably, not $2000. I paid under $400 for my ITR diff on eBay.

 

all those things are wants not needs, I ran all last season with the stock gearing and no lsd, and a blown shock, and used tires. And I still had a blast.

Just get out there and get some track time and worry about all those wants later.

 

I could also save some money doing the install myself, but I was told the tranny work is the best left to someone who knows what they are doing. Does anyone have any experience shimming a LSD, etc?

 

if you're putting in an ITR LSD, I would wager you could get help on here.. if you've never cracked open a tranny before, it would probably help to have someone there who knows what they are doing a bit more though..

but yeah, I wouldn't even worry about it for now.. just get out there and drive..

 

Jeremy,

just get the car ready to race. Don't worry about any other new parts for now. It's only like 8 weeks away from the April school/regional at NHIS (assuming you're going). You don't wanna be tearing into a tranny at this point, IMO. I don't mean to sound negative but it being a new race car (and driver) you're gonna be spending plenty of time tweaking the setup, tweaking the driver, and just getting used to the w2w stuff. I say do the rear sway bar and just make sure the car is ready to go. There's plenty of FWD guys out there w/o an LSD that are doing fine. And if you're short on cash now expenses are gonna come up that you don't expect so budget for those. See you in April. Are you doing the school at all or the test day? I would do the test day and the 1st day of the school. That way you have a whole day to fix any problems or work on setup before race day. I think spending money on track time at this point is gonna make you faster than that LSD will.

edit: i'll have that crome bin done tonite. I finally have time to work on it.

s


Modified by stevel at 11:52 AM 2/9/2005

 

Quick question, not trying to jack this thread, but if you have your liscence are you still allowed to take part in the schools? I have my liscence because I took part in a 3-day Skippy school last summer, but havent made a race start yet. TIA.


-Mark

 

VTECAcuraGSR,
Just drive and have fun.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Racerboy03 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Quick question, not trying to jack this thread, but if you have your liscence are you still allowed to take part in the schools? I have my liscence because I took part in a 3-day Skippy school last summer, but havent made a race start yet. TIA.
-Mark</TD></TR></TABLE>

Mark,
A friend of mine, who had gotten a license from a Panoz school, tried to go to a SCCA regional school and was not allowed. Maybe regions/schools are diferent but they did not allow him.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Racerboy03 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Quick question, not trying to jack this thread, but if you have your liscence are you still allowed to take part in the schools? I have my liscence because I took part in a 3-day Skippy school last summer, but havent made a race start yet. TIA.


-Mark</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good Question! I am in the exact same situation and was going to school just for fun. I had always assumed you could, but I will need to check!

 

I wouldn't be surprised if regions didn't try to keep licensed drivers from buying track time at potentially over-subscribed schools. They are cheap, given the amount of time you are actually out having fun.

K

 

By having my liscence I mean I havent actually sent the forms in yet to SCCA, because I worried about not being allowed at the SCCA schools. Would it be worth it to not even hand the Skippy forms to SCCA and just go through the normal SCCA school procedures for gettting a liscence?

-Mark

PS-Jeremy are you planning on attending the SCCA school at NHIS in April?

 

Since i am my regions licensing person i'll, try to answer some questions here.
If you have a SCCA Regional License issued by Skip Barber and you are an SCCA member and have a current SCCA physical you should have NO problem entering any SCCA regional race.
However if you only did a 3 day Skippy school that would count for one of your two required SCCA schools. You would still have to sucessfully complete one SCCA school and two SCCA regionals to recieve your regional license.
Many regions such as mine also accept other clubs full comp licenses such as Porsche Club,Midwest Council,Waterford Hills,Etc. You still need to be an SCCA member however to race an SCCA event with one of these licenses. Check with your local region to see if they accept other clubs licenses or look in the SCCA GCR as it also lists the approved clubs licenses that are accepted.
Hope this helps

Bob

 

The GSR needs an LSD. No LSD means accelerated tire wear and a big disadvantage pulling out of of slow corners.

I went with a used CTR/ITR LSD from Japan for ~$200 shipped. Gets the job done, pretty much bullet proof, and inexpensive. I want to upgrade to an OPM unit in the future, but for now the Honda unit is fine. I am still debating the 4.9 FD. This year is tune the suspension and build the motor. We will revisit the tranny again next year.

My "must haves" before racing the car were:
* welded cage
* good suspension (shocks, springs, sway bars, camber)
* LSD

I think it worked out well. The car ran great and had no trouble running top times in the ITS "have nots" list. (AKA not E36, not $60 RX7, 240Z)