i went to HPDE yesterday wth some friends and my friend was driving a 14.5 second bmw. i have a gutted 94 HB b16 94 with 4-1 dc header, aem 3inch intake/ITR manifold straight pipe to muffler and a 200 pound passenger.
i also swapped out integra brakes front and rear adding more weight to suspesion. and my overall tire diameter is a little larger running 225/50 totyo ra1.

but i couldnt catch up to my friends bmw he was pulling slowly away. or is it becuase i had a passenger i thought my car was a low 14 car from all the stuff that ive done.


I was trying to catch him on the straight at big willow starting at 3rd gear redline to 4th gear , i have a 94 civic cx hatc b16 tranny.

or would i have been able to catch him without the 200 pound passenger?

 

Can't answer that since it depends on a lot of information.

You will be significantly faster without 200lbs of ballast.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racekar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I was trying to catch him on the straight at big willow starting at 3rd gear redline to 4th gear , i have a 94 civic cx hatc b16 tranny.

or would i have been able to catch him without the 200 pound passenger?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you figure your car weighs around 2100 lbs probably, adding a 200 lb passenger decreases your weight to hp by around 10%. This will probably cost you a couple mph on the straight I would guess. However, when you have two cars that are fairly evenly matched, it's all about exit speed out of the corner before the straight. If you carry more speed out of the corner, you will gain on him all they way down the straight and vice versa. His BMW suspension may have been letting him carry more speed through the last corner. There's too many variables to really say.

It's really hard to equate drag racing times to which cars will be competitive on a road course. I'd bet my CRX would beat a 5-sec top fuel car around the track.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racekar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... HPDE... i couldnt catch up to my friends bmw...</TD></TR></TABLE>

There is only one answer. Drive faster.

Andy - who has run down Z06s in a stock Sentra and has been caught by a 76 hp Rabbit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maxQ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is only one answer. Drive faster.

Andy - who has run down Z06s in a stock Sentra and has been caught by a 76 hp Rabbit.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's all about the driver...

Jon - who has watched a 76 hp Rabbit run down a Diablo.

 

were you driving the red eg hatchback? i was pitted next to you in the white civic hatchback.
anyways, exit speed from turn 9 has a huge effect on your front straight speeds. it could have been that he was carrying more speed through turn 9. even 3-4mph more out of turn 9 will make a large difference. big willow favors exit speeds from turn 5 and turn 9 just as much as it favors 500hp porsches.

 

yeha that was me thanks..
we were about even on exit speed after the exit he just kept pulling.. just a little dissappointed for all the work of ive done so far. thanks for the input.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racekar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just a little dissappointed for all the work of ive done so far. thanks for the input.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you truly care about running him down, stop looking to the car for the answer. If you truly care about beating him in a straight line, stop spending useless $ on HPDEs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maxQ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you truly care about running him down, stop looking to the car for the answer. If you truly care about beating him in a straight line, stop spending useless $ on HPDEs. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

This is an answer to a question you didn't even ask, so feel free to ignore it but the point at which you are "trying to catch" someone at an HPDE, it's time to buy real safety equipment rather than worrying about making the car faster.

I put a LOT of stock in the psychology associated with this game and the second you are timing laps or, even more so, essentially racing with someone is the point that you are no longer doing "driver education." You are racing and should have a cage, harness, and proper seat.

K

 

youre right at these are my next purchases

 

At this point forget what your friend is doing and just worry about improving yourself. You're really not doing yourself any favors comparing yourself to him.

Instead of spending any additional money on go-fast parts, go buy some good racing books (if you haven't already purchased them). Going Faster, Speed Secrets I & II. If you've read them, study them more. Then spend money on seat time.

This is just an assumption, but it sounds like the passenger is an instructor? Keep taking advantage of them!!! The author of Speed Secrets made a great point - practice doesn't make perfect; only perfect practice makes perfect.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">At this point forget what your friend is doing and just worry about improving yourself. You're really not doing yourself any favors comparing yourself to him.

Instead of spending any additional money on go-fast parts, go buy some good racing books (if you haven't already purchased them). Going Faster, Speed Secrets I & II. If you've read them, study them more. Then spend money on seat time.

This is just an assumption, but it sounds like the passenger is an instructor? Keep taking advantage of them!!! The author of Speed Secrets made a great point - practice doesn't make perfect; only perfect practice makes perfect. </TD></TR></TABLE>

it also says you should focus on improving your performance not focusing on the performance of others.

Both of those books are good reading

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racekar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">youre right at these are my next purchases</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm sure they are! Whats really left!


Just get more seat time in. As already stated, Big Willow favors exit speed. I am not sure how many track days you have done since the one you took my class in at Streets, but you were progressing just like you should! Just get some more seat time in and I'm sure you will have no problem with your speed.

And please, get a cage in that car soon. I can help you in that area when your ready!
As fast as you were taking 9, I'm sure it could have been faster!

Glad to hear your still getting to then track. How did the brake set-up I suggested work out? Hope it's better now!

Oh, and yes, 200lbs makes a pretty big difference!

 

yeah the brake swap was HUGE.. i actually locked up my front brakes because i was thinking they were still the hawk hplus pads and stock cx brakes... i found that out quick..

 

my alignement is all screwed up too.. none of the tires have the same camber 2 have positive and 2 are negative.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by getfast &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jon - who has watched a 76 hp Rabbit run down a Diablo.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Matt - who saw a kid on a big wheel pass a Ferrari Enzo.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racekar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my alignement is all screwed up too.. none of the tires have the same camber 2 have positive and 2 are negative. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ack! "Positive" camber??? That could be painful to drive... Not to mention *bad* tire wear. I didn't see any suspension mods listed. Do you have any way to adjust camber right now?

 

Any car, doesn't matter who the driver is, will be faster with less weight.
Note, the <U>car</U> itself will be capable of going faster.

 

yeah i have ground control /koni setup 550 front 750 rear. not really dropped more than .5 inches i think becuase i need to roll the fenders more to prevent the 225/50 ra1 from rubbing.

 

im picking up some skunk2 or spc camber kits today. for the front and ill need to pick something up for the rear to even out the camber

 

Once you are rolling on the straight I don't see weight reduction helping you that much on the BMW. Look at the relationship of rolling mass on a straight as opposed to entry/exit speed on a corner. It's all in the corners my friend. BTW, check out a Best Motoring Video, you'll see that relationship for sure.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by speedracer33 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Matt - who saw a kid on a big wheel pass a Ferrari Enzo.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, I really DID see a Rabbit run down a Diablo... it was Jonathan Boxwell in his stock-motored GTI Cup car at a FATT in 2000!

Jon

 

from what i have always heard, you can expect somewhere around 1/10 of a second off of your 1/4 mile time for every 100lbs you get rid of. i have heard it from a few places but i have no idea how accurate it is.

 

Ask Rubberchicken Derek about his first WCHC race at Cali Speedway this year when he was about 200 lbs under. He killed the field...

Added the 200. and it was a little bit different story.